• Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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    15 hours ago

    Any “paper” food container is lined with plastic. Grease barrier, water barrier, etc.

    • cardboardboxfort@lemmy.world
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      13 hours ago

      They use to make wax coated paper cups which was a step better. Also used to wrap candy in paper instead of plastic sleeves. Oh and all soda came in glass.

      • bcgm3@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        The heat of the coffee melts the wax, which kinda ruins both the coffee and the waterproofing-functionality.

        • 5wim@infosec.pub
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          12 hours ago

          Wax biodegrades easily and breaks down in compost environments and doesn’t accumulate in your body…?

          • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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            11 hours ago

            So in the context of packaging none of that is true. The real difference between wax and plastic is that plastic has a higher molecular weight. No specific cutoff, it’s mostly just vibes. Some packaging folk add a second criteria: wax melts, then burns, while plastic just burns.

            Using your definition of wax, you’re pretty much living in the 17th century. Nowadays, wax comes from oil, and is usually the exact same polymer as the plastic packaging on the next product over. But with slightly smaller molecules.

            Edit: I forgot grease barrier. Old school compostable biodegradable wax dissolves in grease. You don’t want that.

            • 5wim@infosec.pub
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              9 hours ago

              No, sorry, that’s an elementary misunderstanding of molecular weight.

              Saying plastic and wax are the same because plastic just has a higher molecular weight is like saying a puddle and a glacier are the same because they’re both water. Molecular weight dictates how a material behaves. Plastic’s massive polymer chains (up to millions in molecular weight) cannot biodegrade, they break down mechanically into toxic microplastics that persist for centuries. Waxes are short-chain molecules (molecular weight under 1,000) that do not fragment into microplastics.

              Furthermore, you’re assuming all wax is petroleum-paraffin. The push for wax packaging today relies heavily on natural, bio-based waxes (beeswax, soy, plant waxes), which are structurally chemical esters, not petroleum polymers. They are fully compostable, safe, and easily processed by the environment and living organisms. It’s not ‘vibes,’ it’s basic chemistry.

              • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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                9 hours ago

                Okay. And then what happens when your <1000 mw wax polymerizes into a surface coating?

                Because if I take 10 trillion cups of water and freeze them all into one block, that’s a damn good approximation of a glacier.

                • 5wim@infosec.pub
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                  9 hours ago

                  You’re confusing physical phase changes, in this case solidification, with chemical reactions (polymerization).

                  When wax cools to form a surface coating, it doesn’t polymerize. No new chemical bonds are formed. The individual molecules remain entirely separate, short chains under 1,000 MW, held together only by weak physical forces. Because they aren’t chemically welded together, microbes and the environment can break them down easily.

                  Your glacier analogy actually proves my point. When a glacier melts, it breaks apart into individual, harmless water molecules seamlessly. It doesn’t leave behind rigid, indestructible micro-chunks. Plastic, on the other hand, is industrially polymerized, a totally differnt chemical process, where its atoms are locked together by permanent covalent chemical bonds.

                  Freezing a puddle doesn’t make it a plastic sheet, and cooling wax onto paper doesn’t make it a polymer. The chemistry matters…

                  • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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                    8 hours ago

                    Yeah…but that’s not how wax coatings work. Waxes do in fact get polymerized into a coating. Wax itself is pretty weak. And soluble in grease.