edit:if the trains were faster the cost would make sense. if that 20 hour amtrak ride was actually 2.5 hours like the planes to get from the middle of the us to the east cost of the us, then the 194$ train ticket vs 98$ (minimum you could find is probably like 98$ you’re more or less looking at like 120$/plane ticket) plane ticket would make sense.
Flying: The fastest and most popular mode of travel. Over 50 daily nonstop flights operate between NYC airports (LGA, JFK, EWR) and Chicago airports (ORD, MDW), with flight times averaging roughly 2.5 hours.
Amtrak Train: The Lake Shore Limited runs direct daily service between New York Penn Station and Chicago Union Station, taking approximately 19 to 20 hours.
Round-trip flight prices from New York to Chicago start around $232, and one-way tickets start around $84 to $113 on platforms like Google Flights.
it’s around 198$ one way for new york to chicago, amtrak.
*it’s not cost feasible to sleep next to your bathroom on amtrak for 20 hours for 200$. *
Flying is not 2.5h door to door. You have to spend a lot of in the airports and to and from the planes etc. Maybe 4-5h is the real travel time when flying that route and that is what HSR has to compete against. Turns out, on Chicago-NYC that is entirely feasible with existing and tried and proven rail technology.
A proper HSR would connect Chicago with NYC in 5 hours or less. That is why it would be competitive with planes. A developed country would have such infrastructure between such large metropolitan areas at that distance.
A 20h Amtrak route after almost a century of disinvestment isn’t of course. That is exactly the point.
But at that point would that 198$ coach one way train ticket be lowered to match the competitive airline prices? It’s cheap to fly that’s why there’s such a wait at the airport to fly that and depend on the size and type of plane you’re flying on they seat and board by class. Which factors into that added wait time; the cheaper, quicker and convenient it is to get somewhere, the more people will take it.
Trains are usually preferred by people if they offer competitve times (airline destroying at 2h HSR, highly competitive at 4h HSR, competitive at up to 6h). Most US Americans would not know because they have never seen a situation where HSR competes with aviation and they don’t bother to look abroad or make excuses why everything would be different on US corridors like East and West Coast etc. As experience elsewhere also shows, people are ready too pay more for such train services because they are considerably less miserable to use. Also, a considerable share are business travellers and there those flight prices above are fairy tale territory.
Flying is not cheap, it is heavily subsidised and for some reason all those laissez faire economy people are fine with it. The bigger problem is however that aviation is heavily capacity limited. Try doubling capacity of LAX for example. HSR can offer much higher corridor capacities and thereby free valuble airport capacitues where aviation is actually the only option. Capacities can also be relatively easily increased later on if needed.
It has been shown time and again, HSR develops local economy in a way aviation can’t. Look abroad to countried with fully feveloped mobility infrastructure.
edit:if the trains were faster the cost would make sense. if that 20 hour amtrak ride was actually 2.5 hours like the planes to get from the middle of the us to the east cost of the us, then the 194$ train ticket vs 98$ (minimum you could find is probably like 98$ you’re more or less looking at like 120$/plane ticket) plane ticket would make sense.
Flying: The fastest and most popular mode of travel. Over 50 daily nonstop flights operate between NYC airports (LGA, JFK, EWR) and Chicago airports (ORD, MDW), with flight times averaging roughly 2.5 hours.
Amtrak Train: The Lake Shore Limited runs direct daily service between New York Penn Station and Chicago Union Station, taking approximately 19 to 20 hours.
Round-trip flight prices from New York to Chicago start around $232, and one-way tickets start around $84 to $113 on platforms like Google Flights.
it’s around 198$ one way for new york to chicago, amtrak.
*it’s not cost feasible to sleep next to your bathroom on amtrak for 20 hours for 200$. *
Amtrak’s annual cost for fuel, power, and utilities is roughly $330 million to $336 million based on recent fiscal year reports. 2024-2025 report https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/financial/Amtrak-Audited-Consolidated-Financial-Statements-FY2025.pdf
The total global airline spending on jet fuel is estimated at roughly $291 billion. source: https://blog.openairlines.com/time-is-money-fuel-inefficiency-costs-us-airlines-daily
Flying is not 2.5h door to door. You have to spend a lot of in the airports and to and from the planes etc. Maybe 4-5h is the real travel time when flying that route and that is what HSR has to compete against. Turns out, on Chicago-NYC that is entirely feasible with existing and tried and proven rail technology.
That 5 hours total is still better than 20 hours total one way.
A proper HSR would connect Chicago with NYC in 5 hours or less. That is why it would be competitive with planes. A developed country would have such infrastructure between such large metropolitan areas at that distance.
A 20h Amtrak route after almost a century of disinvestment isn’t of course. That is exactly the point.
But at that point would that 198$ coach one way train ticket be lowered to match the competitive airline prices? It’s cheap to fly that’s why there’s such a wait at the airport to fly that and depend on the size and type of plane you’re flying on they seat and board by class. Which factors into that added wait time; the cheaper, quicker and convenient it is to get somewhere, the more people will take it.
Trains are usually preferred by people if they offer competitve times (airline destroying at 2h HSR, highly competitive at 4h HSR, competitive at up to 6h). Most US Americans would not know because they have never seen a situation where HSR competes with aviation and they don’t bother to look abroad or make excuses why everything would be different on US corridors like East and West Coast etc. As experience elsewhere also shows, people are ready too pay more for such train services because they are considerably less miserable to use. Also, a considerable share are business travellers and there those flight prices above are fairy tale territory.
Flying is not cheap, it is heavily subsidised and for some reason all those laissez faire economy people are fine with it. The bigger problem is however that aviation is heavily capacity limited. Try doubling capacity of LAX for example. HSR can offer much higher corridor capacities and thereby free valuble airport capacitues where aviation is actually the only option. Capacities can also be relatively easily increased later on if needed.
It has been shown time and again, HSR develops local economy in a way aviation can’t. Look abroad to countried with fully feveloped mobility infrastructure.
I’m not against them but like an 10 hour bullet train from Boston to San Francisco, HSR’s will never happen.
And no one with a clue is suggesting that.
HSR frees up space at airports for exactly those connections where only flights are suitable.