3 thoughts of school:
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Actually never working at all from my 30s onward, probably around 10 mil €.
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Quitting my job and getting into lazy investment to get a passive income, around 1.5 mil €.
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Playing into me being passively suicidal, if I loose my job and the number hits zero, I’m just killing myself. Technically that would also mean I don’t have to work again.
Number 3 is the most realistic one.
- Playing into me being passively suicidal, if I loose my job and the number hits zero, I’m just killing myself. Technically that would also mean I don’t have to work again.
Dude, if you really want to do that, don’t waste your life pointlessly: rob a few banks and give the money to charities, Luigi a few billionaires, and play cat-and-mouse with the cops until they find you, and then make sure they suicide you, not you.
Nah man. Finding your peace in a forest, surrounded by nature with nothing to your name, that’s where it’s at.
I agree. I live out in the sticks myself - not with nothing to my name, but I certainly haven’t saved anything for old age - and I have few needs. But this is not the thing OP was envisioning. And while I think it’s a terrible idea on its face, I just remarked that they could off themselves more productively if that’s what they really wish.
Please don’t. I mean, first, please don’t. But also think of the people who will be sent to search for you and will eventually find you. And finally, please don’t.
Technically that would also mean I don’t have to work again.
But if you are dead, you will never feel comfortable again. Technically that does not fulfill OP’s question. 😉
What is more comfortable than returning to the void from whence we’ve came?
Literally everything in existence is more comforting and simultaneously discomforting than the nonexistent void.
Comfort, as well as discomfort, are things not conceivable nor experienced in the void of nonexistence, since, y’know, they don’t exist (along with everything else).
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Impossible to answer with all this AI BS that’s about to implode & take down a significant chunk of the economy with it.
1 million. Getting 3% back on investments will give me $30,000 a year. That far more than what I currently make. Also, less laundry, less eating out, and not burning so much fuel commuting to work and home.
Don’t forget inflation. That 30K isn’t going to buy you much in twenty years.
The general rule is that you need to cover inflation plus what you want to withdraw. That way your income goes up as inflation does.
I’m retiring soon. That should add enough to cover inflation.
Wildly jealous. Enjoy!
put the money in a standard index fund. take $25k per million out first year. increase that dollar amount by 2.5 percent annually to account for inflation. should last indefinitely unless some moron in a white house blows up the country.
i retired at 35 and am now 60, i have nothing like what people say they need here. i have been investing since i was 19, i have a gf, a modest cottage in a small town in Australia, no debts and we travel thru SE Asia 8 months a year.
There’s people living on way less with really interesting lives out there who don’t work.
The late game is the problem for me, how do you’ll manage it?
manage what ? sorry I’m not sure i understand?
I think they mean once your age related issues catch up.
move to any country other than the US
Can still be hard.
Then that’s what the millions will solve.
He’s in Australia. Age pension plus healthcare.
3million used to be the “fuck you” money estimate, but it’s probably more like 12 now, so, 12million dollars.
1 mil at 6 percent is 60k very doable.
General rule of thumb based on historical studies is that you can safely withdraw more like 3-4% to have a safe portfolio. Though, you can cheat this if you’re able to find more work or drastically reduce spending during recessions.
Very true. I figure at that point costs would get reduced significantly as debt will be paid off.
3 million USD. I’d still run my farm but I wouldn’t work my job job anymore. Just means I’d upscale the farm a small amount and give away a larger percentage of my products. 3 is genuinely low but I have very little debt as is and a reasonable lifestyle.
10 mil. Enough to absorb all but the worst shocks to the stock market, continue to grow if desired, or pull $500,000/yr interest at a conservative 5% growth. $500,000 year means you could afford the Lamborghini, but you still gotta make payments.
IMO $2-3 million today is about the “millionaire” of yesteryear, someone we used to call rich but not crazily so. $10 million is actual passive wealth that is enough to live very well without touching the principal.
If you want it to run indefinitely then you need to let the principle grow with inflation as well, so with 5% growth and 3% CPI you have $200k to spend each year (which will also scale with CPI)
Edit: you’ll also have to choose more risky investments to stay above CPI, which means the stock market rather than fixed interest, and means your pot of money can change quite a bit with market shifts, and you may need to downsize expenses in some periods or risk eating into your principle if you can’t trim your lifestyle
Yes, I understand that and stated that the amount could be allowed to continue to grow as one of the choices for the investment. There was no need for me to get into the details and make it a financial lesson in respons to a hypothetical fantasy amount of money.
2 500 € per month multiplied by months of, say, 50 years.
2 500 € * 12 * 50 = 1 500 000 €.
Would not be a rich life, absolutely not, but would leave me with enough money to live even if the part I’d invest was to be lost.
The question is missing one key variable: how old are you?
Someone my age without that many years left and with the kids out of the house doesn’t need nearly as much as a 30-something with a family.
700k and I’d be choosing to be dirt poor in monetary value.
But I’d have freedom to live. Not lavishly, but I’d be free. Read books. Exercise. Creat art. Love, maybe.
There are many things in life that are both valuable and nearly costless. That’d be better than what I do now.
💯 👏
Enough to provide the USA median income of about $85K from investing it conservatively, while keeping up with inflation, plus a little cushion in case of emergencies or adverse economic conditions.
That’s about $10M.
You could withdraw 3% forever and should never run out. You really only need 2.8MM to live on that lifestyle.
This assumes that climate change, fascist kleptocracy, and a finite resource crunch doesn’t result in accelerated inflation for the rest of the century.
It also assumes that a diversified portfolio will achieve similar returns to the last 50 years.
I expect inflation to average 5+ % for the rest of the century.
this dude does that with just a million.
Based on a very abbreviated look at his channel, I would argue that he does not. His investments are not conservative; the kind of investments he’s advocating require continual research and significant expertise or they become high-risk. That doesn’t count as “never working again”; it’s working as an investor with yourself as the client.
When I say “conservative”, I mean stick the money in an index fund or three and do nothing more than reinvest any returns over the median income on a good year so there’s some extra to take out in a bad year.
4 million invested with 5% withdrawal rate and 400k in HYSA. 200k per year with 2 years in reserve to buffer any sequence of return risk on the 4M. Adjust spending and rate as needed.
Why 5% withdrawal rate? Also, what do you do with your buffer in a year where the market crashes? Skip adding to your reserve that year and hope for a recovery?
There’s the famous 4% rule that has been amended to 4.7%. I rounded up to 5%. Just a nice even number of 200k per year. With the flexibility the buffer adds and the ability to cut back in a down year I’d be comfortable with the extra .3%.
The buffer is there to live off of in a down year or years and not pull 5% out of the investment portfolio. Either 100% comes from the buffer or it can supplement a much lower withdrawal rate. In a known downturn I could reduce my expenses, minimize withdrawal rate, and fund the rest of the year with the buffer. Essentially I don’t want to pull $$ out of the 4M on a down year that will prevent recovery.
In an up year or a year I didn’t spend the full withdrawal amount, I can replenish. The 5% rate over a long time period will still let the portfolio grow. So if I pay myself 200k per year static, my rate could also naturally decline. There are a lot of factors (inflation, expenses, lifestyle) but that’s the high level framework.
many got burned on that formula before 2008. 45% of the entire value of the stock market is tied up in the magnificent seven of NVidia and AI. all go poof.
2 million euros would be enough for me to live comfortably for 50 years.
I’m shocked at the huge sums people are posting. I agree 2 million is loads. 600k for a house then the rest is 2k per month of disposable income for 60 years.
600k for a house could also mean 15k in yearly taxes or more depending on where you live.
right, here in Australia, where I am annual property taxes are AUD$1800.
And property prices in Sydney and Melbourne are much higher than a USA or Europe equivalent.
That sounds glorious.
2 million is my number as well. Once my house is paid off and my investments hit 2 mill, it’s gonna be real hard to keep working.
Half a billion. I would stop working in IT, but I’d be building social housing for the homeless in my neighborhood and across my city. I’d have social workers check up on them and make sure they’re okay.
I’d do this until I run out of money or die.
Would love to hear more about the logistics, comms/touch points, etc. involved in getting a program like this off the ground. There is a non-zero chance I get a windfall in 4-6 years and since I am comfortable enough on my own I’d love to do something like this with it.
I’d essentially be giving away housing for very, VERY cheap and/or free.
That means buying apartment buildings, renovating to make them easier to maintain and make them accessible, hire people to take care of it, get in touch with social workers and plan visits.
I’d also start coops where people could own a share of the property. Sell an apartment building cheap enough for lower middle class people to afford it and become property owners.
Speaking of coops, I’d like to start a grocery coop as well.
I also dream about buying apartment buildings and converting them to co-ops. From some napkin math i did a while ago, it seems financially feasible to secure a loan on a large building with 10-15 people with ~$10-15k each contribution on a 5-10% down payment. Then costs as a co-op could be significantly less per person than any anything else available on the market while still generating enough “profit” to potentially do it again.
Operating costs for landlords are high and its seen as investments for generating income, but as a co-op a lot of the work would/could be done by members. Labor costs are (can be) essentially non existent - there’s no property management company to hire - general maintainence can be done by residence, etc.
It seems the biggest hurdle is that banks don’t generally like to give loans to co-ops. I have found alternative funding sources for co-ops, that may be able to help with the initial down payment but wouldn’t be able to provide the full loan on the building.
Seems like we have very similar goals/dreams. I’ma DM you my email if that’s OK as I’d love to continue the conversation more in-depth.
