Can someone explain to me how my state got everything else right for the most part but went stupid for this one?
Literally, letās inspect little girls privates, but not boys, because 10 trans students exist and MIGHT want to play sports with their friends? Jesus.
It was also kind of disgusting that literally all our state initiatives were funded by a 1%-er, Brian Heywood and his Letās Go Washingtion PAC.
All male sports athletes should just play with their dicks out. Only way to be sure.
Pass legislation and call it the Humans Actually Requiring Athletic Male Body Exhibition law.
Thatās how swimming used to be back in the 50s. Kinda fucked up how adamant parents were to keep it that way at the time.
Fix the timelineā¦
Pretty sure a lot of republicans would vote for thatā¦
Just like in Ancient Greece, who were famously vehement anti-pedophiles.
That is very disappointing like when CA passed Prop 8, and it went down in flames later because these things are wrong, and target people. Thatās not liberty and justice for all and will fall eventually too.
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This is the absolute dumbest bait thing to get mad about. This entire issue is more or less a straw man created by the right to get people to vote for them. It impacts a completely miniscule portion of the population, and very clearly, trans women have a biological advantage over people who were born women. More muscle, faster reaction time, etc. Itās known and scientifically proven. Clearly, the populace agrees with this as evidenced by this passing. You could make a trans specific league, but there are so few trans athletes that you would likely be unable to field a team. The left needs to just drop this issue. It plays right into where the Republicans want.
https://www.advocate.com/politics/national/trump-dallas-transgender-empty-arena
very clearly, trans women have a biological advantage over people who were born women
Iām gonna be honest, as someone who doesnāt really give a shit about sports, I just donāt care. Let whoever wants to play play on whichever team or league they prefer. I donāt care who plays, wins, or loses, and the whole thing just doesnāt matter very much. These are GAMES. Diversions. We are talking about children playing games. This shit just doesnāt matter very much.
trans women have a biological advantage over people who were born women. More muscle, faster reaction time, etc.
Do you believe that an AFAB girl/woman who is able to easily defeat male opponents should be banned from participating in womenās sports?
If you are going to argue in favor of banning trans women from participating in womenās sports, you might take that argument to itās logical conclusion and filter out for all biological inequities. Born too tall? Banned from basketball, because the average person is not as tall as you and it wouldnāt be fair to the majority of average height players. Born with webbed fingers and toes? Banned from swimming, because other people donāt have that biological advantage and it wouldnāt be fair.
You see how drawing the line arbitrarily at gender identity/biological sex is absurd?
You see how drawing the line arbitrarily at gender identity/biological sex is absurd?
I hope I do but too many that are happy transphobes when it comes only to womenās sports donāt every acknowledge it. Hell even in this thread thereās someone happy to say itās only a factor in womenās sports. Others say itās fine because they hadnāt seen men complaining like the womenā¦
I think we should drop issues that impact you instead, since thereās more trans people than there are you.
It would only impact a completely minuscule portion of the population.
Nobody actually cares about trans women in sports. Its a proxy for the real argument, which is usually āI find it ickyā. The left doesnt need to drop it. They need to ignore the stupid sports argument and call it out for what it is. Bigotry.
Trans people have rights and the right wants to strip them of them. It has nothing to do with sports.
we need to hold their feet to the fucking fire because this isnāt just an attack on Trans people. Itās a gateway to attack the entire Queer community.
They come for one of us, they come for all of us.
Nobody actually cares about trans women in sports.
what exactly gives you that idea? I literally just had a conversation with a very left leaning friend yesterday and she made it pretty clear she thought it was ridiculous for trans women to be competing again biological women because she said they clearly had an unfair advantage.
very left leaning friend
She thinks that Kamala was only slightly too far left when she said that ICE would deport more people under her administration than Trumpās.
thanks for your helpful addition to this conversation.
Ask your idiot friend how long sheās been thinking women are inferior to men.
'Cos that biological essentialism is the bastard child of misogyny
a very left leaning friend yesterday
Well, even leftists can be absolutely brain dead fucking stupid. So jot that down.
both parties have their very brain dead portions, one party just has more of them.
I would say anyone that canāt think for themself, fact check, or vet sources is probably pretty fucking braindead. Unfortunately there are almost just as many of those people on the left as there are on the right. I mean theres a reason why the frickin middle class voted against a literal billionaire tax in california.
My point is that your āvery left leaningā friend is a fucking dipshit for believing that, and is probably not especially left wing, if theyāre willing to throw trans people under the bus based on pseudo-scientific nonsense
Is it pseudo nonsense that men have a physoligical advantage compared to women, or what are you arguing?
Trans women arenāt men and taking HRT impacts your muscle mass, etc.
There is a wealth of scientific literature about the effects of HRT. This isnāt new or unexplored. But apeals to fairness in sports, based on a poor understanding of the science, is being used as cudgel against trans folks. As a wedge issue to bar us from being about to exist freely in public life.
The fact that the sports ban policies that come out of this, also impact cis women and girls, be exposing them to genital checks and the like, are a bonus for the kinds of backward reactionaries who push this shit
pseudo scientific how? this isnāt bigotry, this is a real question.
Every trans woman i know is basically patched together with duct tape and caffeine.
If the numbers are so fucking low then itās a non-issue. Weāre talking a miniscule part of the population. Youād have to have a trans student. Then that student needs to be out. Then that student needs to want to be into sports. A tiny number sliced down and down and down. Youāre talking about five fucking people. Youāre getting hysterical over five fucking people . That is absolutely nothing worth talking about, let alone legislating. Absolute horseshit
its strange. I know a very large portion of the left feel its wrong for trans women to be competing against biological women, but this portion is so afraid of getting vilified by the other portion for what they secretly consider to just be common sense, that they just stay silent. And, honestly, its probably the smart move. We live in a world where if youāre the nail that sticks out you get hammered down.
Good. That position deserves to be vilified. I hope you get hammered down off this fucking platform you worthless piece of shit
I guessā¦ thank you for proving my point?
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To any future reader: this person is a bot farming rage. They are a new account and, according to their comment history, they believe non-white people are genetically predisposed to steal, and poor people are predisposed to rape.
Thanks. I will harvest this rage. š
Edit: Aww, account age 20h, and their dozens of posts/comments are all deleted. š¤£
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i want to watch the life drain from your eyes
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i wasnāt talking about sexuality or gender, i was talking about killing you
Your instance name fucking rules! I love it
Nobody wants you here
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You identify as someone or something that cannot comprehend a reality of which many aspects are analog.
I did enjoy having you here for a short time, but I feel I speak for this threadās majority when I say that your ad hominem attacks and refusal to create any meaningful argument are becoming tiresome.
Chromosomes, not wigs or gait, determine sexual characteristics. Chromosomes are not binary, and presumably you are not that userās doctor or specialist.
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Vast majority of ātransā are just homosexual men with XY chromosomes.
Source?
your overall āfor any and no reason at allā abortions
you obviously believe that a man that puts on a wig and says āI am now a real womanā is legit.
Donāt try to put words in my mouth, and I already rebutted the second point.
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If you could understand the images I sent in the other comments, you would see that it is entirely possible for someone with XY chromosomes to appear to be a woman, present themselves as a woman, and believe they are a woman.
By the way, Iām still waiting on a source for this claim you made:
Vast majority of ātransā are just homosexual men with XY chromosomes.
Where did you get this information? I would like to learn more.
Kys
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They were almost as insensitive as demanding children get genital examinations in order to participate in school sports.
Because our hate crime laws are insufficient.
I think a lot of the left is being willfully ignorant of other peopleās viewpoints and I find it frustrating.
- The vast majority of people voting for this did not know all the content of the bill, ākeep boys out of girls sportsā is probably the most they heard about it, not the genital checking.
- Plenty of centrists and even right-leaning people are OK with adults doing what they want, but are still very protective of children. Limiting children from hormones is not considered a violation of trans rights for most people; rights have always been segmented by adulthood, the same way a child does not have the right to vote or join the military or get a tattoo. I think a large part of the issue is that the left (or any political ideology) is not really cohesive and is several ontologies in a trench coat; the popular rhetoric (woke version 1 as AOC calls it) from the left has been that gender is a social construct and is divorced from biological sex, if thatās the case then why do trans children need hormones to be their preferred gender? As a fellow leftist I understand everyone experiences gender and itās relationship to society differently (euphoria vs dysphoria, etc.), but there has been a major nuance gap in public discourse which leaves many Americans feel like the left has pulled a bait and switch on them.
- Society has spent decades promoting girlās and womenās sports and now feel like thatās being trampled upon by allowing biological males (who have a distinct physical advantage) dominating their space. Itād be like getting rid of weight classifications in power lifting, anyone under 6 feet would never win again and short people would be ousted out of another sport.
A āfellow leftistā biological males-ing? Youāre a hoot
Do you deny sexual dimorphic trends within our species? Are there populations of humans where females have more bone density, skeletal structural differences muscle mass, and height than males I havenāt heard about? Would you want all sports desegregated? If males arenāt distinctly different from females why even bother taking hormones to change body morphology at all?
I think itās worth noting that a humanās genetics chnage based on their environment.
Saying that males have a distinct advantage is entirely too reductive for such a complex topic as human genetics and growth.
The voter guide was pretty specific about the invasive checks. Everyone gets the guide.
Dominating girls sports? Of course that is nonsense. Meh.
Unfortunately I canāt disagree. I do wish people would look something up rather than assume as the initiative did at least say that āit would require verification of a studentās biological sex.ā I guess people didnāt ask the obvious next question of āhow?ā
Proper education and understanding is one of the biggest issues in society. Weāre always moving too fast as society intends, so that weāre too tired to think about things, weāve got bills to pay, and social media primes us to make and stand behind snap judgements.
We really didnāt circulate this ad enough.
Thankfully it should get immediately challenged at the state level based on discrimination since it only applies to girls.
Unfortunately I canāt disagree. I do wish people would look something up rather than assume
You canāt say that, in agreement with someone who said āby allowing biological males (who have a distinct physical advantage)ā. If someone had done the former, theyād understand the latter is not a blanket statement you can throw around
Relax everyone. Conservatives only want to inspect the athletic girlsā genitals. Itās not like they are trying to look at non-athletic girls or even naked boys. That would be gross and immoral.
Each young, athletic girl who has genitals that are capable of passing a detailed inspection with a rating of 7 out of 10 or higher will be permitted to play girl-sports in public for everyone to look at, record and enjoy. And to prevent any criticism from the libs, all genital inspections will need to be video recorded. For safety of course. And then reviewed by men who are officially qualified as authentic conservatives. For safety. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER.
Why are genital exams required? Donāt they already already have a copy of everones birth certificate?
Genital exams are required because conservatives are pedophiles. It really is that simple.
FUN FACT: Conservatives are biologically unable to experience empathy. This is why they are unable to view women or children as humans. Humanizing others requires empathy.
A statement from your doctor does not mean a genital exam. I have to get a statement from my doctor for my son to go to summer camp that says he has no physical limitations. That part of the new rules is no big deal. The discussion should be about rights, not this hyperbolic calling everyone a pedo.
Hey now, thatās not fair. Itās not hyperbolic to call conservatives pedophiles. It is a fact that they chose a proud and well known child predator as their best representative out of everyone else in the nation.
They chose him as their most accurate representation three times over a decade, knowing full well that he ālikes 'em youngā, likes to go into teen dressing rooms uninvited so he can see them nude, and grabs women by their genitals without consent. According to conservatives themselves, no one more accurately represents them than Trump. No one.
Itās not just Trump. Conservatives consistently choose child predators as their most accurate representatives. I think its disrespectful to conservatives to ignore their chosen avatars. They insist on aligning with pedophiles and we should respect that choice and refer to them as such.
The measure says students in elementary, middle and high school who want to join girlsā athletics must first submit statements from their healthcare providers verifying their ābiological sexā. Opponents have raised alarms the measure may force girls to endure āinvasive and extremeā genital exams to participate in school sports.
Epstein is getting hard in is grave
That is just humiliating. These arenāt professional sports leagues for godās sake.
What the fuck.
And specifically targeting girls. How the fuck does something like this even get on the ballot?
Brian Heywood, a republican millionaire who moved to WA from California to āescape liberalsā, has been abusing the ballot initiative system here using his wealth for years. He (and his PAC āLetās Go Washingtonā) purposefully makes them misleading or otherwise confusing to understand in order to get them passed.
A silver lining is that most of his initiatives havenāt passed (such as the initiative to repeal the millionaire tax), and those few that have over the years have been gutted, heavily modified, or found to be unconstitutional in the state supreme court. The supreme court here just became even more left leaning, and since the way he wrote the initiative makes it only apply to girls, itās likely to be thrown out.
Thankfully itās got a good shot at being ruled unconstitutional, assuming the supreme court doesnāt fuck that up too.
Can the state supreme court block it?
The measure āmayā force girls to endure invasive and extreme genital exams? Iām pretty sure having oneās genitals examined, especially when a minor, is invasive and extreme.
Will I donāt support the ban. This seems a little over the top. Invasive and extreme? Any kid getiing regual exams yearly by their doctor get a genital check. That is enough I am sure. Where it gets complicated is with the poor, who canāt afford to have a regular pediatrician. But sadly they usually canāt afford to play school sports often. So there are a ton of problems with all this, like a ton. But I donāt think there are going to be any invasive and extreme exams as a result. With all the real problems this creates, canāt we just stick to those?
I donāt remember getting my genitals looked at in regular exams when I was young. Regardless of that, these are NOT health examsāthey are to inspect the genitals of the child. That is extreme as fuck. These genital inspections are discriminatory, as boys do not have to submit to them. How anyone could accept this, let alone vote for it, is absolutely insane.
They arenāt requiring a specific exam. They are just requiring a doctor to sign off that they are biologically a boy or girl. This basically come down to lifting the underwear and looking down, which is what is normally done at an early are to check for abnormalities that may need to be addressed. No touching even need to take place. At a very young age, like pre 1 or so, they do a bit more detailed checking for issues. So if you have the same doc, they could sign off based on that alone.
My kid didnāt, I was told vaginal exams only start when they become sexually active.
Vaginal exam is more than is needed to confirm boy vs girl. The docs always just lifted the underwear and looked for any sign of abnormalities that might need treatment. No poking or touching even needed.
I wonder if theyāre required to satisfy the federal standard for sex identification. That would require more than a genital exam. It would require capturing a zygote.
Pretty invasive.
It would require capturing a zygote.
Did you mean capturing a gamete? As in, a viable sperm cell or egg? Which proves that the individual is biologically capable of producing those gametes, which means they are capable of producing viable offspring?
Because capturing a zygote (a viable egg that has been successfully fertilized by a viable sperm cell, but hasnāt yet implanted itself on the uterine wall to become an embryo) would require a woman to have a fertilized egg. And I feel like requiring impregnation just to confirm sex is a littleā¦ Impractical?
It would mean positively identifying males would be impossible, because theyāre not capable of carrying a zygote at all. That thatās before we even get into the whole āin order to confirm an elementary school girl is biologically female so she can compete, the doctor would first need to impregnate her to create a zygoteā thing.
I did indeed mean gamete, and thank you for the correction.
This just adds another barrier and pathway to abuse to womenās sports
Transphobia comes from misogyny, they want to hurt both the cis girls and the trans girls.
Thatās the point! Brian Heywood wants girls and women to avoid playing sports.
We won the war but lost the battleā¦ Also this is sure to get sued and challenged as itās a direct discrimination based on sex and title IX prohibits that shit
The State Constitution also prohibits this. It will hopefully never take effect because a state court must shut this down.
It wouldnāt be the first right-wing ballot initiative to go directly into the trash in this state.
The war is ongoing make no mistake.
Congrats you have banned 1% of children from a leisure activity and now require minors to present their genitals to adults of no relation.
1% is a huge overstatement. Thereās like 4 in the whole state.
4 trans minors in the entire state? I am doubtful.
if you actually think its a whole 1% then you should probably think about it a bit more.
I love cis people telling me this shit
im not sure what that is supposed to mean, or what relevance that even has to this topic, but youāre welcome i guess.
Serious question: does this explicitly say that the person whose job it is to inspect the genitals of girls cannot touch the girls?
If not, thereās almost certainly going to be a pedo in this position taking advantage of this new rule to touch underage girlsā genitalia
The article says statement from their healthcare provider, so they should be subject to the Hippocratic oath.
Aināt nobody got deductible money round here! This is going to quickly turn into the pedoiest doctor around setting up shop in the gym a few times a year, with a perfectly legal āshow a little pussy for playā stand where all the girls flash gash for a sticker and a lollipop.
Heāll probably get away with āneeding more than a glanceā too. As Iām sure āwomanā is defined in such a way as to require more than labia.
History shows that to be very optional
Can someone explain to me how my state got everything else right for the most part but went stupid for this one?
If thatās an actual question, my guess at an answer is that since this electionās blue wave was more voting against Republicans than for Democrats, itās not a sign of fundamental change among the electorate. People mostly still believe today what they believed a few years ago (though thereās clear leftward shift), and one of the few genuinely popular things Republicans have is their anti-trans agenda. Therefore when typically Republican-leaning people got to vote on it, they voted against Republicans and simultaneously against trans rights. This is doubly so because trans women in sports is one issue where Republicans can actually make a seemingly rational (but wrong) argument for their case.
Some things lag in politics. Trans kids in sports are the new boogeyman so most people have a hard time accepting the premise. If trans kids are going to be excluded we at least need to focus on education and general acceptance. When I was in high school pretty much nobody was openly gay although I like to think we wouldnāt have treated them like lepers (probably would have). Meeting LGBTQ people in college was common though and a lot of us got over our fears and misconceptions. Iāve met maybe 3-4 trans people in my entire life but in actuality it was probably more because they didnāt feel safe to present as the opposite gender. Unfortunately I think it will take time to get over the initial shock and the best we can do is to try and defend their right to self-determination and encourage them to be who they are so everyone can see this is really no big deal.
Also from a purely propaganda point itās a great wedge issue, mostly because itās what I like to call a grey water issue wherein theres a lot of nuance involved so it makes people stupid. Ideally people would stop being stupid and handle this based on an instance by instance basis especially since there are so few trans folks to begin with.
Mind you I know enough about biology to know that itās a rainbow of fucken grey, because biology abhors easy answers. Thereās no such thing as a perfect specimen only a type specimen and even thatās ignoring a lot of variation.
