The truth on the other hand, is the unshakable reality that has driven every sanction, every sabotage attempt, and every assassination plot since 1959: Cuba is a threat only to an idea. It is a threat to the imperial doctrine that a small, poor nation in America’s ‘backyard’ must not be allowed to choose socialism, to provide free healthcare and education, and homes to live without the permission of Washington.
For this sin of self-determination, the crime of building a society where capital is not god, Cuba has been punished with the most enduring economic siege in modern history. This is not an ‘embargo’, which I consider to be a sterile, political term. It is a total blockade, designed to constrict and cripple. It is enforced by a plethora of laws with names like the Helms-Burton Act, which terrorises foreign companies from trading with the Island and allows the US to seize ships in international waters. Its goal, as US politician Robert Torricelli once admitted, was to…
‘Wreak havoc’.
Add that to the endless list of war crimes that shithole empire did/does to rest of the world.
What what whaaaa??? I thought the US was a force for supreme goodness up until the millisecond that Trump became president.
This was most definitely the turning point. And just who were George Dubya, and Clinton, and Reagan, and Nixon, and goddamn Kissinger, and Robert McNamara, and the Dulles Brothers, and all the slave owners who founded the country?
A shining city upon a hill, manifest destiny, exceptionalism. Well-meaning promoters and protectors of democracy forever and always. Just what would the rest of the world do without you?
/s in case anyone actually needs it.
I hope and pray that the Cuban people stand together and persevere. May this be the final nail in the empire of evil.
It is not even in top 10 most barbaric things USA has done in its history.
I had no problem with Cuba. Nice place to visit in winter. No Americans.
I think, based on conversations I have with people in real life and read online, that the people in the US haven’t challenged the 60 years of propaganda about Cuba, and believe it a totalitarian nightmare dictatorship.
I have a close friend who went to Cuba for ecological research (did you know they still have intact reefs) a few years ago, and when they would tell people they were going to Cuba, the most common reaction was a fearful “that’s scary” and a confused, almost accusatory “why”.
I don’t think they realize that everyone else can just go to Cuba, it’s only the blue US passport and a bunch of old white guys, and probably now more Cuban Americans, with their fear of communism and land reform stopping them from enjoying a very nice bottle of state owned rum and an experience of how other people live.
I’m glad other countries have been stepping up to help the people there, the Cuban people deserve happy and comfortable lives, and we clearly don’t have the appetite to stop starving them of that right now. Until we shake that propagandized view, I don’t imagine that will change either.
Name a worse diaspora than Cuban Americans. Israelis don’t count
South African
colonialistsdiaspora in piSSreal is borderline the most Satanic of the lot out thereIranian diaspora gives them a run for their money
The Hawaiian diaspora is the most severe in the entire world when viewed per capita. More Hawaiians have been forced out of Hawai’i than any other group of people have been forced out of anywhere else
Plus the US quite literally holds massive amounts of Hawaiian lands that were seized when the US overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy, and could easily return that land to the Hawaiian people, it just chooses not to do it. Mostly by refusing to recognize any Hawaiian leadership and treating them on par with how other US native people are treated. If native Hawaiians had a recognized government the way indigenous peoples on the mainland do, the government would have to turn that land over. So they refuse to recognize
It is essentially genocide.
I don’t know about that. Genocides don’t usually take 80 years, as the population grows. I don’t think that fits the description.
Time period is irrelevant.
Intentionally disrupting a countries ability to prosper and sustain itself with the end goal being loss of lives of those citizens is still genocide.
Bombs or starving. Doesn’t matter the method.
Killing off civilians of a state is genocide.
Ok shitlib
Not a Lib, loser.
What you say you are doesn’t matter. It’s what you believe and do that decides what you are. And you are running defense for the US genocide using the same tired talking points that are used to deny every genocide.
What we say or do or are doesn’t matter. Your need for strawmen does.
“strawmanning” is a rhetorical fallacy where you point out the logical conclusions that are to be drawn from a person’s statements <- you, an imbecile <- An actual strawman, but just barely.
Learn what the logical fallacies are if you want to throw them out, you moron
Im not the one conflating decades of “embargo” (still fucking horrendous btw) largely dictated by the economic choices of shipping companies whether to serve cuba or the U.S. (hint: companies that make money will choose the profitable option) with the recent extreme escalations by the Trump admin which are attempting to tighten it into a full blockade (which I shouldn’t need to tell you since they’ve been really fucking overtly vocal about their actions and intentions)
Attempted genocideScrew my previous comment.
As FunkyStuff says, It is a genocide unquestionably. Millions of lives have been lost around the world due to US sabotage warfare (which the libs love to call “sanctions”) that uses the US hegemony power to strangle countries by any means necessary, all for the benefit of a fascist political agenda.
Cuba has received some of the harshest of the hybrid warfare from America. The fact that you are equivocating about the warfare tactics of a fascist society reflects poorly on you, no different from “but actually”-ing the actions of nazi Germany in the middle of WW2 (while also being factually wrong about your points).
The fact that Cuba can survive and thrive despite the genocide is a testament to their resilience. But a state, and a nation are not one entity. All the extra lives that could have been saved had Cuba been allowed to develop under normal external conditions do not come back to life because the population managed to grow.
Genocides don’t usually take 80 years
Found the Israeli
Zionist.
“People in socialist countries starve because we starve them”
I don’t understand why I have to see this posted multiple times when I’ve blocked the poster over and over.
I guess you can’t escape the truth
“A lie travels quickly, but the truth endures.”
If I were a super perfect president of the United States, I would ask Cuba if they want to join the Union, with all rights and benefits that goes with being a State. This offer also would be extended to territories like Puerto Rico.
IMO, Cuba and other island States have a special potential - as places to try out UBI, universal healthcare, free education at all levels, and other reforms, that can’t be easily implemented in isolation* on the mainland.
*Specifically, I want to try different variations of implementation, to find the best ‘recipe’ for an improved democratic socialism. Islands are good for A/B/C testing, I wager.
Even an Americans self fulfillment fantasy of being the bestest us president that ever was involves the annexation of Cuba. You guys got a problem.
I said “offer to join the union”. If rejected, then America should simply end embargoes and all of that crap. In any case, I suspect you have an issue, because you don’t want Cuba to have opportunities of any kind. People are being hurt on Cuba, because they have been denied prosperity by selfish dickheads who can’t think of a better future.
you people are deluded.
No different than some missionary biblethumper peddling his poison thinking he has something great to offer.
your union can get fucked.
Build a wall around it, stay behind it and leave the world alone.Your comments here are soaked in US chauvinism.
Cuba is already sovereign. It does not need to be “invited” into the empire that has spent over 60 years trying to strangle it. Treating another nation as a potential US “state” or “test lab” is naked colonial thinking.
Also calling the islands places for “A/B testing” social policy is grotesque. You’re talking about real people, not sandbox populations. Cuba already guarantees universal healthcare, free education at all levels, housing rights, and food subsidies despite being under one of the longest economic sieges in modern history. The US can’t even provide those basics to its own working class.
The blockade isn’t some abstract policy disagreement. It blocks fuel, medicine, banking access, shipping insurance, medical equipment, and even disaster relief. It’s collective punishment imposed by the United States. Every year almost the entire world votes at the UN to end it. Washington ignores them.
To add to this Puerto Rico is not some inspiring example of US “opportunity.” Puerto Rico is a US colony with no voting representation in Congress, crushed by debt, austerity, and privatization imposed by Washington. If that’s your model, it’s an indictment of your beliefs.
And finally Cuba does not need Amerikkkans to teach it socialism. Cuba built a functioning public health system, biotech sector, disaster response model, and mass literacy campaign while under siege something the US ruling class hasn’t even properly accomplished for its own despite ruling most of the world with a bloodied iron fist.
If you actually cared about Cubans, you’d drop the annexation fantasies. Your grotesque idea of “testing grounds.” and ridiculous imperial “offers.”
I have a feeling that your hypernationalism isn’t to help people, but rather to lash out at the United States. You don’t look any different from the Republicans in my nation.
Hypernationalism is when you don’t want to be colony sucked dry by the Wall Street oligarchs 🙄
You’re completely lost. If I were to guess, you’re getting some kind of benefit from psychologically transferring qualities that you see in America to yourself, and then taking criticism of America as a personal threat. Since we’re analyzing each other.
I don’t like America, at least not the one that I live in. What I want is a better America, based on socialist ideology and direct democracy.
🤨
Where have I ever been hyper nationalist or even nationalist at all? You just don’t want to contend with the fact that you’re pro imperialism and colonialism and an outright chauvinist as long as it has good pr.
How about just ending the embargo?
Oh, so just like how trump offered Canada and Greenland to join the union. Get you some of that self awareness mate
My thought process is very different from the Orange Man, thank you very much. While I obviously would have to ask experts in this hypothetical scenario about what resources former territories and Cuba would need, my focus is three things:
1: Allow these lands to become prosperous for their people’s benefit. This is regardless of whether they become part of the Union as States, or as independent countries. People should live a decent life. Either way, mutual trade is a keystone.
2: Try out different structures of authority for resources and services in each different socialist State. Boring but important stuff, like how many departments are needed to distribute resources, checks and balances, anti-corruption measures, ect. Assuming a presidency of two terms, it is only 8 precious years to figure out a good way forward. Thus, A/B/C testing.
3: If a good model of practical social democracy is developed, try to spread it, and standardize the socialism for the testing States.
Oh honey. No. That is not how this works.
I would ask Cuba if they want to join the Union
And you’d receive a universal and resounding “no”. Cuba is its own independent country, with its culture and its ideals, much better than the USA. If you were a “super perfect” US president you’d be better off remodeling the USA to be more akin to Cuba lmao
Where do you think remodeling gets started? Having the US being jealous of Cuba’s prosperity would do much to help convince the states to become better.
That should be done with internal propaganda, Cuba will never join the US.
Why the fuck would they want to do that?
Jesus fuck, read the room. NO COUNTRY WANTS THAT.
How does your position help Cuba?
“Your position?” Dude. My position is that suggesting annexation of Cuba is incredibly tone deaf and generally offensive. My position isn’t meant to directly help or harm Cuba, it’s meant to protect objectivity, which of course helps all good faith actors.
I will concede that your option works only if you agree that Ukraine has to give up and become a part of Russia. Does that make sense?
By not making it an imperialist conquest by a dying empire. It helps by not dragging Cuba down. It helps by letting Cuba dictate it’s own fate, and not by a bunch of feudalist technocrats. It helps by not having to have Cubans eat the psychic damage caused by become complicit with an evil regime that’s ok with committing genocide if it makes a rich asshole slightly richer. It helps by not having it be ruled by a narcissistic psychopathic pudding brained man-baby, who believes he is the smartest person in the world, but is so incompetent at everything, he could fuck up a cheese sandwich.
Jesus fuck… why would anyone want to join that shithole.
I dunno, maybe helping to almost end the world in 1962 plays a small part in it.
Maybe if the US hadn’t tried to invade Cuba the year before they wouldn’t have requested Soviet assistance. Also maybe the US shouldn’t have placed nukes in Turkey if it didn’t want the soviets to do something similar.
Maybe study the whole story before writing. From Wikipedia:
In 1961, the U.S. started deploying 15 Jupiter IRBM (intermediate-range ballistic missiles) nuclear missiles near Izmir, Turkey, which directly threatened cities in the western sections of the Soviet Union. These missiles were regarded by President John F. Kennedy as being of questionable strategic value; a nuclear submarine was capable of providing the same cover with both stealth and superior firepower. In the late 1950’s missile technology was well developed in the field of medium-range ballistic missiles (MRBMs), as opposed to ICBMs (intercontinental-ballistic missiles) which could not be kept in a state of readiness at all times.
MRBMs represented only a small portion of the total American nuclear arsenal, but still much larger than the U.S.S.R.'s. Soviet strategists realized that some nuclear equality could be efficiently reached by placing missiles in Cuba. Soviet MRBMs on Cuban soil, with a range of 2,000 km (1,200 statute miles), could threaten Washington, DC and around half of the U.S. SAC bases (of nuclear-armed bombers), with a flight time of under twenty minutes. In addition, the U.S.'s radar warning systems oriented toward USSR would have provided little warning of a launch from Cuba.
Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev had publicly expressed his anger at the Turkish deployment, and regarded the missiles as a personal affront. The deployment of missiles in Cuba - the first time Soviet missiles were moved outside the USSR - is commonly seen as Khrushchev’s direct response to the Turkish missiles.
I am aware of the whole story. It still doesn’t change the fact that they were complicit in almost ending the world. I will say that it doesn’t excuse America’s current behavior.
Less complicit than the USA, and Cuba didn’t play a role in any of the other ways the USA has PERHAPS SUCCESSFULLY ended the world.
What a fascist bootlicking take. Blaming Cuba for the US deploying nuclear weapons on an apocalyptic scale AND STILL FUCKING DEPLOYING THEM DOING TO THIS DAY.
You must really have your head shoved waaay up the eagle’s rotten asshole to come up with something that backwards.
So you support Chinese reclamation of Taiwan
If only Cuba had been the sole player in that saga. Instead of a pawn between the USSR and USA.
True, true, true…
Except for Castro publicly going on about how Russia should have never backed down.
shit americans say
British and Soviets had their famines in India, Ireland and Ukraine. Americans need their own Holodomor
There was also a famine in the 30s in Kazakhstan, not just Ukraine. A similar number of people died.
The “holodomor” is Nazi Banderite propaganda. There was a famine in an area that was prone to famine for centuries prior. It was not targeted at Ukraine, it also affected Kazakhstan and western Russia. It was also the last time they had a famine.
They had one more after WW2 but this one is never mentioned in western media because “nazis deliberately causing starvation by destroying half of USSR agriculture and murdering millions of Ukrainians, Belarussians and Russians” is going against western narrations.
Yeah I probably should have specified last natural famine. Even then kulaks worsened it beyond what it should have been through burning crops and slaughtering livestock.
Soviets didn’t have a “famine in Ukraine”, they had a famine in the Soviet Union caused by the need for extremely rapid industrialization started in 1929. If it hadn’t been for the rapid industrialization (which hinged on moving field laborers to factories in cities and was funded with the only product they could export: grain), the soviets would have lost WW2 and tens of millions more of people would have died.
The famine disproportionately affected Ukraine (and other agriculturally strong places in southern Russia and Kazakhstan), but the industrialization also disproportionately benefitted Ukrainians by liberating them from Nazism and saving tens of millions of their lives from Nazi extermination.
If you want some good insight on the soviet famine of the early thirties, I suggest you read Robert B. Allen’s “Farm to Factory”, it makes a very good economic analysis of it.
yeah they had a famine in the soviet union, but the ukranians starved to death in millions
Yes, due to the particularities of agriculture in Ukraine, not due to ethnic or imperialist reasons, so it’s not comparable to India or Ireland
yeah there was no way to deliver food there, especially not from foreign countries that offered aid. also not possible to let people leave
Food aid did arrive, though insufficient, but as I explained previously, the industrialization hinged on grain exports (the USSR being at the time a preindustrial society meant there was literally nothing else they could export) to import machinery and expertise to kickstart the industrialization. A delay in industrial development due to stopping the grain exports would have directly implied a Nazi victory.
There is absolutely no historical evidence of any intent of hunger against Ukrainians (unlike for example Israeli politicians explicitly discussing starving Palestinians to exterminate them), and the famine also killed millions of ethnic Russians and Central Asians. This is the consensus among contemporary historians.
The Bolsheviks correctly predicted that a delay in industrialization would lead to them being crushed by western imperialist invasion. There’s ample evidence for this even in the Western-edited Wikipedia article on Soviet industrialization:
From a foreign policy point of view, the country was in hostile conditions. According to the leadership of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks), there was a high probability of a new war with capitalist states. It is significant that even at the 10th congress of the Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in 1921, Lev Kamenev, the author of the report “About the Soviet Republic Surrounded”, stated that preparations for the Second World War, which had begun in Europe
That was as far as 1921 but they couldn’t industrialize at the time due to the civil war, hence Lenin’s “New Economic Policy” which lasted roughly until 1929. Stalin famously predicted the start of WW2 down to the literal year in which it would happen. From a speech by Stalin in 1929:
We are 50–100 years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they crush us.
This is the reason why the agrarian collectivization was carried out in such a hurried fashion and a famine ensued. There was ample debate about this in the party, but ultimately, the international pressure and threat of invasion was too great, and fortunately the Bolsheviks reacted quickly enough to be able to industrialize.
Between 1929 and 1939 (the eve of WW2), the Soviet Union grew its output by 15% yearly, a miracle unseen in history ever before. Thanks to this industrialization, the Soviets could manufacture the tanks, planes, artillery and rifles necessary to defeat the Nazis, whose explicit purpose was to genocide the entirety of Slavic peoples between Berlin and the Urals. Had it not been for the heroic effort of the Soviet industrialization, sadly a lot of which was brunted by Ukrainians, the Nazis might have won WW2 and genocided the entirety of Ukraine. Glory to the Ukrainians and all different ethnicities of Soviet heroes of WW2 who contributed massively to the defeat of Nazism with their own work and blood.
so they decided the potential industrial progress was worth however many deaths in the ukranian region
not someone i would like to associate with
also, it is a useless thought exercise, but would they have been crushed by the nazis? in the end, it was the winter that they didn’t prepare adequately for, plus the usa sent a bunch of equipment over, maybe they’d have sent more, if neededSo they decided the potential industrial progress
Not potential, measurable and factual, sustained 15% growth in industrial output yearly, with it being the only defense possible against the upcoming imperialist invasion. You keep arguing as if the industrialization is something hypothetical, it’s an undeniable truth, and it’s the main factor in saving Europe from Nazism.
was worth however many deaths in the Ukranian region
How many Ukrainians would have been exterminated without the Soviet Union having the capability to manufacture 30.000 T-34 tanks against the Nazi war machine? Some 7 million Ukrainians perished due to the Nazi invasion in “just” 2-3 years, imagine how many would have been exterminated if the Nazis had had even just a few more years of occupation. Also, you continue with the fixation in the Ukrainian region, similar numbers of people died from starvation inside Ukraine as in the rest of the USSR.
also, it is a useless thought exercise, but would they have been crushed by the nazis?
Yes, there is absolutely no doubt about this and it’s consensus among economists. A feudal country cannot defeat an industrialized nation bordering its lands if the latter invades it. It was not “winter” winning the war, that’s Napoleon, it was the battle of Stalingrad that resulted in a turning point in the war. The Soviets were THIS close to losing the war, and even in victory, 27 million Soviet citizens died as a consequence of the war.
plus the usa sent a bunch of equipment over, maybe they’d have sent more, if needed
Your speculation is nonsense. The USA did in fact send more equipment to England than to the USSR, and it is the latter that defeated the Nazis (80% of dead Nazi soldiers were killed in the Eastern Front). There is absolutely no doubt possible that the USSR would have been crushed with Blitzkrieg as were Poland and France had it not been for their industrialization efforts in the previous decade, this is the historical consensus. Stop trying to bend reality in a topic in which you’re clearly not well educated.
so?
Want to blame the evil RuZZians for it like those Banderite nazis do bcs they got their ass kicked? LOLwho else was leading the soviet union? who exported the food out of ukraine? much like in the irish famine?
You have zero knowledge how the SU even worked.
Where do you think Chruchov came from? The clown who gave Russian Crimea to that temporary anomaly.
IDC what you and your nazi friends imagine happened, it’s BS.
Grasping at straws to justify their Russophobia and blatant fascism.
For everyone to see, even today.You have zero knowledge how the SU even worked.
not quite zero, but i’ll admit, i’m not super knowledgeable
Where do you think Chruchov came from? The clown who gave Russian Crimea to that temporary anomaly.
does it matter? did the ukranian people do it to themselves if that guy was from there originally?
did/does it help the georgians that stalin was from there?Grasping at straws to justify their Russophobia and blatant fascism.
russians keep serving pretty thick and sturdy straws
also, til, criticising the soviet union/russia is fascism
The sanctions really should have ended when Castro died at the latest, but I still won’t call Cuba a socialist country. It’s a communist one. It’s under a high amount of control. You’ll get thrown in prison for criticism, internet access is limited, and not everyone is on an equal footing there. Communist or not, the sanctions are still completely bullshit.
good grief please learn what the words you’re throwing around actually mean before you use them
your comment means literally nothing because you don’t know what socialism and communism even are
What a child like view of politics
Yes, I agree, that the sanctions are bullshit. You’re just a little confused about the terms socialism and communism, no wonder, since they are often used wrongly. So communism is defined as a classless, stateless society. No country ever claimed to be communist. Those you probably think of all claimed to be socialist (Soviet Union, China, Cuba,…). Socialist countries by definition want to become communist, but haven’t reached that end goal yet. Communism wouldn’t need to use force or control or prisons or police, because there wouldn’t be class conflict. It would be a completely free society.
Socialist countries like Cuba are not only attacked from the outside, but also from the inside, by people who want to hold on to the unjust privilege of being able to exploit other human beings. That’s why they still need a state to defend their freedom from those who would destroy it.
That’s the marxist definition of a state btw, the institutionalized weapons of class warfare which one class uses to suppress another. In a capitalist society, the opressor class uses the bourgeois state to suppress the majority. In a revolutionary society, the liberated people use a socialist state to suppress capitalist forces, who try to regain power by all means necessary and usually with infinite resources and support from other capitalist states.
Cuba is terrible; its own allies have turned their backs on it and dug its own grave.
Cuba is absolutely gorgeous, and it’s a shame that the conservatives have been lying about what we are doing, at their directives for the last 50 years.
