Depends what you mean. If, as the commentators appear to be assuming, you mean you lost a yelling match with the worst person imaginable at lunch then no, not a great idea to change your mind. If, as someone who assumes you are a reasonable competent human would, you mean a specific point which has been thoroughly examined for some time, then yes, change your mind.
That’s kind of stupid stance to have.
I mean I can get into a argument of ideas with a MAGA idiot about how you shouldn’t support the current Epstien File POTUS and present all kinds of evidence about how the current president is an idiot, that he has ballooned the deficit more than any modern president for no rhyme or reason, that his immigration policy and tariff policy are complete and utter failures that extremely hurt the American economy and families and the MAGA idiot would steadfastly refuse to acknowledge facts, crap all over the table and declare victory.
I certainly didn’t win the argument and I certainly shouldn’t be supporting the “I can identify a Squirrel” in Chief because I couldn’t convince a cult member they’re a moronic cult member.
You’ve just got to crap on the table first
Important distinction for this thread:
- A dialectical argument is one where both sides compare views to see if they can together arrive at a higher truth by realizing their mistakes. Good for changing your mind. Requires good faith on both sides.
- A debate is a rhetorical battle, often more for the sake of presenting views to an audience than for the sake of the debaters. Do not change your mind because you’ve been rhetorically outmanoeuvred. This is the common type of argument for politicians and public discourse.
An argument is not a fight that must be won. It is a conversion with an exchange of ideas and opinions. The world is a tiny little bit more complex than “wrong/right”, and so are the conversations and differing viewpoints.
No. If I believed that, I’d turn into a racist chud because I have never been able to “win” an argument with racist chuds as I tend to argue with logic and facts.
They always argue in bad faith so it is literally impossible to win. Except by making some point that annoys them a lot and then just immediately walking away (or more likely blocking them), leaving them seething because they can’t have the last word
I replied on X and blocked it, but he took a screenshot of my post and replied by saying “he blocked it out of fear”.
I’ll claim it was evidence he was seething and had to say the last word so someone would hear it lol. They can claim they’ve won to others and lie to themselves as much as they want, but at that moment when you walk away and they can’t reply, you both know who took control of the situation
Edit// It can also be even funnier if you don’t block them, just say goodbye in the final message, and then never reply whatever they write. Then you get to see their final attempt to say the last word, but they have to wonder did you not care enough to even block them, and can’t be sure did you ever read it. This apparently takes some weird form of self control though, so blocking might be better for most people (and it depends on the platform can it work)
Edit2// Oh, and it’s also hilarious if you’re extra polite in the last message, especially if you manage to not sound sarcastic. Then posting about it makes them also look worse, especially if they rage back
No.
Source: Tried to argue with an antivaccer…
antivaccer
There are people who deny the existence of vacuums now? Smh my head
Yeah, they don’t like anything that sucks more than they do.
So, I assume you’re a guy (or at least have those “parts”) since you’re smacking two heads…
If you are right, why didn’t you win?
Because you can’t logic someone out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into. You’re not arguing with facts, you’re arguing with people, and if you argue with stupid people, they’ll drag you down to their level and best you with experience.
Because “right” and “good at winning debates” do not necessarily correlate.
Some people don’t respond to reason or facts.
Yeah like all ML ;)
🙄
I believe the common analogy is it’s like playing chess with a pigeon:
You know you’re smarter and do everything right, but they knock all the pieces over, shit on the board, then strut around like they won.
Cause being right doesn’t mean you know how to argue with that person. It also doesn’t mean you remember all the relevant facts that would make winning possible.
What does winning look like?
Recognizing you’re wasting valuable oxygen and limited emotional bandwidth on someone who doesn’t want to be reached.
Sadly, this seems to make up the vast majority of people.
I mean… I’m not much or a people person for that reason. They are fucking exhausting.
Same. So I guess that means we’re done here. See ya around. 😁
You can try it right now, actually.
Changing your mind isn’t something you do - it’s something that’s done to you. If you hear a compelling enough argument, you will change your mind whether you want to or not. If that doesn’t happen, the argument wasn’t good enough.
Obviously there are ways to resist changing your mind once that uncomfortable feeling starts creeping in, and that’s called cognitive dissonance. When new information conflicts with your prior beliefs, you either try to discredit it - for example by attacking the suspected motives of the person making the argument, as many like to do - or you try to retroactively fit it into your existing belief structure instead of updating your views.
I change my mind all the time. It’s not fun, but I have no choice. When someone makes a good point I can’t refute, updating my beliefs is the only rational thing to do.
This is actually one of the most puzzling things about online arguments I run into here pretty much daily. More often than not, the people I’m arguing against don’t even seem to try to change my view. They’re just putting on a show to let everyone else know I’m making the wrong noises and need to be ridiculed for it. Shutting down the discussion like that just seems incredibly unproductive to me.
Being good at talking is not equal to being right. Falling victim to manipulation is not equal to being wrong.
If I can’t win an argument because the other guy has good points I need to reconsider my opinion.
If I can’t win because me not gud talk, maybe not.
No. Just because I’m uneducated about something or not intelligent enough to convince someone else about something, it doesn’t mean I’m necessarily factually wrong or morally wrong about something.
The view I agree with is: If I can’t win an argument I should consider changing my mind.
No.
Just because you can’t win, doesn’t make you wrong.
I used to debate flat earthers. I never won the argument but no way will I change my perspective on something so basic as the shape of Earth.
Absolutely not. No one wins an argument and it’s the least likely form of communication to result in any part changing their mind. Even formal debate with rules and timers doesn’t lead to changed minds often.
I personally strive to be factually and logically correct about anything I might discuss (that can be validated by facts or logic). Despite spending large portions of my time reading and researching so that I understand the world I live in better, I could count on one hand the number of times I’ve been able to change someone’s mind.
The truth is it’s very hard, bordering on impossible to change someone’s mind who isn’t open to it and most people are not. It’s easier to make a snap judgement and never reconsider it or let someone else form one’s opinion of something than to do the work to understand a topic enough to warrant having an opinion at all.
The extreme polarization of opinion and the politicization of basically everything makes it so that it’s rapidly becoming functionally impossible to interact with people of different ideologies as they now encompass most of one’s life.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life.” – Jean-Luc Picard
I can’t win arguments because I’m bad at arguments.
By that logic, I would probably end up changing my beliefs every week or so or end up believing something absurd because someone who believes it is good at sophistry.
But then again, this is also why I try not to argue much. It’s a waste of time and just makes everything worse.
I will, however, hear people out if I think they might have some good points.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
So no is my answer. But we could argue about it.
