It was just after 2 a.m. on a pitch-black Friday morning when Bernadette Greene-Placentiaās life changed. The Democratic candidate for Congressional District 8 strolled across a parking lot to repair a damaged campaign sign. It was a routine sheād followed all summer. This time, she only made it a few yards.
An attacker smashed her over the head. She blacked out. She woke up to find a strange man on top of her.
Greene-Placentia struggled to open her eyes. She felt a sharp pain below her waist. The attacker was pulling his penis out of her.
She heard him mumble something like, ā-ic bitch, not a very good fuck,ā which her mind filled in as āDemocratic bitch,ā she recalled. She wasnāt sure that was exactly what he said.
One leg was out of her jean capris. She wore brand-new tennis shoes and a campaign t-shirt. Another man came over. Greene-Placentia felt his weight nudging her left leg further apart. She began swinging her foot at him. āNot even worth it,ā she heard the man say as he moved away. He wore black boots and had small feet, she recalled.
The two men left Greene-Placentia face down in the parking lot. The hatch of her silver Jeep Grand Cherokee was still open. The car was still running. She heard music.
She doesnāt remember pulling up her pants or picking herself off the asphalt parking lot. She doesnāt remember closing her Jeepās hatch and putting her foot on the gas. She doesnāt remember pulling her car into the driveway and collapsing into her bed.
āItās just these little tiny flashes of things that I do remember,ā Greene-Placentia said in an interview with Phoenix New Times. āAs much as I donāt want to remember, Iāve tried very, very hard to remember more stuff. But thatās where Iām at.ā
Iām sick and tired of men telling me that rape culture doesnāt exist, that rape victims should have done something different, they should have worn something different, they should have not gone out alone, Iām fucking sick of all of it.
We have a problem with misogyny and rape in this country. It doesnāt exist in a vacuum on its own.
Trump is merely a symptom of the rot.
I was listening to an excerpt of Jimmy Carr interview a few days ago in which he was arguing that one of best ways to combat toxic masculinity was to encourage young men to go down to the pub with the lads. That men in groups will keep checks on others within the group.
I respect Carr and his crusade against toxic masculinity, but I am a guy and a lifelong feminist (thanks mom) that grew up in an extremely misogynistic culture. Sure, my friends would have kept me in check, but thatās because we were always a mixed gender and sexuality group. Most āladsā crews I knew, once drunk and rowdy, were more likely to gang rape a girl than not if she told them off. Sorry Jimmy, humans are still way to close to close to chimp to be left unchecked.
I donāt know how feminist Iād consider him. As I recall, he and Stephen Fry both drifted right in their politics over the past decade or so:
āthe problem with American communism, which is woke, is better described as American Marxism. And what it is is instead of trying to redistribute wealth, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to want to do, they want to redistribute status. And that is a recipe for fucking madnessā -Jimmy Carr
Stephen Fry ended up praising Jordan Peterson or some such, Carr started talking anti-woke politics on podcasts after being ācancelledā by a heckler.
From a student news website:
āJimmy Carr has built his career on his deliberately offensive style of comedy ā nothing is off limits and nobody is safe. His new special, aptly-titled His Dark Material, is supposed to epitomise this ethos, as Carr spends an hour bombarding his audience with endless quips about hipsters, vegans, gingers, women (including his own girlfriend, who sounds like a very lucky lady), victims of sexual abuse, little people, and anybody else he feels hasnāt been at the receiving end of enough grief lately. His piĆØce de resistance comes in the form of a section at the end of the special filled with jokes Carr brazenly calls his ācareer endersā, in which he says that few people know about the fact that an estimated half a million Roma people were murdered during the Holocaust because nobody wants to ātalk about the positivesā. One manās suffering is another manās slapstick.ā
https://thestudentnews.co.uk/2022/03/03/the-charge-of-the-woke-brigade-the-case-against-jimmy-carr/
He tried to defend the Holocaust joke by saying it brings attention to non-jewish victims of the Holocaust which earned him every comedians highest achievement when going anti-woke - being defended by Jeremy Clarkson.
they want to redistribute status. And that is a recipe for fucking madness" -Jimmy Carr
Heās afraid of losing his own status. Heās a right wing tool.
I only know him for his, as of late, takes on toxic masculinity. Some are good, and some (like the one I highlighted) are dreadful.
Something tells me that Jimmy āRiyadh Comedy Festivalā Carr doesnāt take ethics entirely seriously.
Tbh we also have a problem with misogyny on the threadiverse.
Why does this have downvotes? Someone got raped and OP is justifiably mad about the state of things, why do people here feel thatās something to take issue with?
We really like to feel progressive and like weāre fighting the good fight here, until someone posts a sexist meme and you see what the comment section looks like, and it becomes clear a lot of folks havenāt interrogated how they look at women or womenās issues even a little bit since leaving reddit
Some of the downvotes are because I am one of the few voices on the fediverse speaking out against those sexist memes and such. There are some people that donāt like outspoken women and I have a few stalkers that are very dedicated.
But as you can see from other comments, there is a problem with misogyny here. The kneejerk questioning of rape victims is just one sign of it.
I was reading a comment in a post today that was about becoming a regular at places was how to build community. The comment was from a disabled and moderately attractive (direct quote from the commenter) woman who said she avoided becoming a regular because people felt that they could take advantage of her if they knew her routine.
And it just made me sad. Nobody should have to go through that. Nobody should feel ostracized because they are afraid someone will abuse them.
I had, and for the most part still do, agree that itās generally good to become a regular at a place. But I hadnāt thought of it from that womanās perspective before and I respect and understand her decision.
Thank you, genuinely, for understanding her point of view instead of becoming defensive.
You have (at least) a few fans too.
I have a deep respect and appreciation of your posts and commentary. We sure as shit donāt have enough people like you.
I really appreciate that, TaterTot :3
Hopefully with enough time and stubbornness, more people like us will feel more comfortable here in the Fediverse!
I donāt have you tagged since youāre quite visible here, but I notice and respect your opinions, even if I donāt always completely agree with them. Please keep up the fight, we need more passionate people who are willing to speak their minds.
I think youāve already had a decent impact on it here. Still a ways to go and all that, but it doesnāt feel as entirely focused on menās perspective as it did before you and a handful of other very vocal women got here. That focus on men had me considering leaving for a while, something I no longer am considering.
Well this really made me feel good to read :) Itās really cool that youāre stickin around
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Agreed! I love seeing velmaās posts. She always has something helpful to add to the conversation.
That is unsurprising and also upsetting. That shit makes me sad.
People love to pat themselves on the back for being one of the good guys until they actually have to do work to confront the things theyāve been taught and have internalized, and engage with the fact that theyāve allowed themseveled to be comfortable with some shit they shouldnāt be.
And its frustrating. I see casual sexism here more often than any other brand of bigotry.
I think itās much more prevalent than people want to admit.
Otherwise, spontaneous gang rapes wouldnāt occur with such frequency. Why are there always so many men that are up for it randomly? What are the odds, yeah? Seriously, that wouldnāt be possible if it was a rarity.
Theyāll rape animals and men, too, because theyāre rapists. Women and children are smaller, so they are preyed on much more, but if all women disappeared tomorrow, theyād still rape whomever/whatever else they could.
Sure, this could be a political ploy in this case, I know nothing. But the reason such a ploy is believable is because itās so common.
Itās way more prevalent than most men want to admit, thatās for sure.
Women have either been victims themselves or know someone who has been a victim. The rate is close to 1 in 3 women have been raped.
Itās 1 in 5, but it is still a lot and way too high.
It depends if youāre looking worldwide or at the US. It also depends if youāre looking at reported cases vs unreported.
But yes, itās still way too high.
And rape vs sexual violence. 1:2 will experience some type of sexual violence.
Thatās honestly lower than I expected
What the fucking shitā¦ This makes me gag! God fucking damnit, I hate menā¦ and Iām saying that as a man!
Republican women are some of the most vocal rape deniers. Itās not about hating genders, itās about the people that promote a culture where these behaviors flourish.
Itās still men doing most of the rape and sexual assault, which is what P1nkman was referring with their outrage.
I hate this game we all have to play - avoiding saying which gender it is that perpetrates rape and sexual assault the most.
Itās men. Men do it the most. Not all men rape, but overwhelmingly itās men who rape others - women, children, and other men.
Understood.
āmenā is not a fixable problem.
Republican culture is
Those men have been āfortunateā in their lives perhaps.
If a man has been homeless or in prison for any length of time, he knows youāre right, and perhaps even a little too optimistic.
Iād say half of men are predatory given the opportunity, easily, at least.
Iām reminded that there are some cultures where, if people want to reserve a seat in a restaurant or something, theyāll leave their purse or wallet there unguarded. And nobody steals it. Thatās their culture.
So, I think when people claim rape culture doesnāt exist, they donāt understand what that means. If rape culture didnāt exist, then it would make no difference what a woman was wearing or what she was doing. She would be able to feel safe and feel confident that nothing would happen to her. Thatās so far off of American culture right now that itās not even debatable.
Unless the advice to the victim is āshould have ripped off his ballsā or āknifed him in the dickā, itās all bullshit.
Rapists need to suffer. Not get promoted up the ranks of the Epstein class.
I heard good things about going for the eyes and throat.
Iām not excusing rapistsā shitty behavior, but, as you said, this is far more prevalent than many of us would like. Not accepting that fact and taking steps to reduce the risk is a poor choice. I donāt turn my back on a dog I donāt know, and a woman driving around by herself and getting out of her car in the middle of the night in unpopulated areas is leaving herself at risk as a target of opportunity or even a planned attack.
Again, not saying this is okay or the way things should be, but is a realistic view of the world we live in. The talk about clothes or behavior, though (beyond that which exposes you to risk), is completely beside the point. Predators will attack targets. Stop the predators. Donāt be an easy target. Both of those should be done, but only one can reasonably be done on an individual basis.
And no, none of that makes this in any way her fault. That rests squarely on her attackers.
Jfc, you canāt get out of your car at 2 a.m. if you are a woman in Arizona?
Apparently not.
Could you please make a list for us dumb women so we can know what we can do without getting raped? We clearly need some help building our own prisons here.
Did it ever cross your mind that in order to live a free life we HAVE TO live with the risks that come with it?
If i look at the statistics the whole world is a fucking no go zone for us.
I understand as much as any guy can how shitty everything you said is, and it wish the world wasnāt such that those choices had to be made every day by far too many women, but letās not pretend that this was some defining aspect of her as a woman. This was someone doing a job in an uncontrolled environment without proper safety measures. No, that doesnāt make her at fault for being raped, just like it wouldnāt be her fault if one of the signs slipped and injured her when she was by herself trying to repair it. The risks could still have been reduced if she had considered the safety aspects of the task, which includes the people in the area where she was working. Would you have been as accepting if it had been one of her team who had been raped instead in the same circumstances? Would you have been lauding her bravery and vision by empowering one of her team to do the same thing? Or would you be saying she should have thought of the safety of the people working for her? What if the candidate had been a man and his employee got raped in a parking lot at 2 AM? It was a poor choice, possibly one she didnāt consider, or didnāt consider as much as she would have for one of her staff. And again, with all that said, the rapist is completely responsible for his shitty actions.
Yeah, or how they should not have been convicted of a crime they may or may not have committed and sentenced to the most concentrated and well documented rape culture in modern history, male prisons. Obviously rape cultures exist. I agree with you.
False rape allegations happen, but theyāre much more rare than actual rape.
The amount of support prison rape has in society is a real part of our rape culture. When rape is celebrated as a valid punishment, it helps support the same rape culture that supports questioning victimsā stories. That they must have done something to deserve it.
Itās all tied together.
I was not refering to false rape allegations.
how they should not have been convicted of a crime they may or may not have committed and sentenced
Then you should be more clear.
Or you shouldnāt make assumptions.
Youāre welcome to clarify your statement.
Which part do you need help understanding?
Every time rape culture comes into the limelight, I remember a party in college where a friend, well call her blue, was so drunk she was pants-off propositioning several people. All of us were like āBlue if youāre down tomorrow, thatās cool. But like, go to bed.ā
Not Nick. Name not redacted. I went into their room and cock blocked. Straight to Nick ābrother youāre way more cogent than her. This is rape, and everyone here knows it.ā
Or, sorry to both sides here, but the time Jenna, name not redacted, came downstairs with a suggestive giggle and grin after we had all just helped our friend James (not his name) to bed, in his own home at his house for a graduation party. Jenna, that was rape. And I said it out loud to you in front of everyone. And you giggled like it was cute.
Thereās a small percentage of humans among us that donāt respect others autonomy. They need to be outed. They need to be held accountable. We need them away from the rest of us.
Fuck you Nick. Fuck you Jenna.
Thanks for being the type of person to call that shit out in the moment.
I saved a friend of mine from a similar situation. I was living in a house with 5 people. She was shit faced. I came home and found her in the shower. Clothed. Passed out.
I got her changed (we were pretty close friends). And put her to bed.
Like a bit later I get up to check on her. Cause people can die from alcohol poisoning. I See her door is open. Go in and a fucking guy is in her bed.
Can you believe that !?
Some shit stain that was there for the party, from one of the other housemates was throwing.
I flipped out on him and cussed him out. He called me a bitch. Told me to mind my own fucking business. She was into it. ā¦
He really wasnāt going to leave. I am pretty sure I threatened him with violence. (This was like 20 years ago).
Man, I was so angry. Iām still angry when I think about it.
I remember it was actually really hard to get him to leave. He didnāt think I had any right to tell him he couldnāt rape my friend. I do recall there being a lot of yelling.
I did finally get him to leave. And I told the housemate about it but she honestly didnāt care.
Next day I told my friend some shitty guy was in her bed but I chased him off. I tried to recall what he looked like. So she could figure out who he was. But I donāt think we figured it out for sure.
And cautioned her about Ashleyās āfriendsā.
She said she got in the shower because she realized how drunk she was and thought it would sober her up. And didnāt remember much after that.
Thank God I got off work in time.
A woman underestimates her alcohol consumption one fucking time and the vultures swoop in. In her own place.
Not safe anywhere.
The fucking nerve to argue over the right to keep raping someone blackout drunk!
Right?!
And he genuinely thought calling me a bitch and telling me to fuck off was going to work.
I wonder if such a tactic had worked for him in the past.
You know I was thinking about how back then we called it ātaking advantageā. Not rape.
Like they just took an opportunity that presented itself. An opportunity that the victim created.
Morally gray. But not the same as rape. Which is only defined as when a sober woman is physically attacked and held down with force by a man. the term wasnāt really applied to many other scenarios.
No one used the word ārapeā to describe assaulting an intoxicated person.
It was always āsomeone took advantage of themā.
And I think describing it that way was part of why it was pervasive. Acceptable. Common.
And even now itās hard to get people prosecuted for rape when the victim is intoxicated.
Like somehow , them being incapable of escaping or resisting makes them willing and accepting by default.
I think in some ways , the rapist who physically attacks a sober woman is at least unashamedly acknowledging what they are doing.
Whereas the rapist who waits until his would-be victim is incapacitated and canāt fight back , and tells himself they wanted it, is a delusional sociopath. These are the types who go after children and teens too. The kind who groom. These predator types are more insidious.
I donāt remember it being called ātaking advantageā except maybe when I was a kid and too young to really get it, but itās really gross that people used to say that. Taking advantage of someone should mean overstaying your welcome or not picking up your fair share of the checks when you go out to eat, not raping someone too drunk to consent.
And I think youāve got a great point there about the psychology of these people. Iām particularly aware of and concerned with sexual violence stemming from self delusion due to ways in which Iāve been victimized. These people seem to be the sort unable to handle a no or to do the flirtatious dance of figuring out that itāll probably be a yes before they ask. So rather than finding someone who would say yes or becoming someone more people would say yes to, they find a person too drunk to consent, or someone too inexperienced to know better (especially minors), or they try to manipulate/pressure a no into a yes, or whatever other way that isnāt just straightforward finding someone who actually wants you.
Apparently plenty of people have no Idea that having sex with someone under influence of substances is rape. Iāve had this conversation with someone, who openly said the point of going to parties is to score with drunk girls.
Weāre younger back then, I feel like heās a better person now.
This is horrific, and sounds like actual terrorism in that it is a violent act with an apparent political motive. I hope she is safe and gets justice for what was done to her.
Itās 100% terrorism and itās exactly what all these misogynistic billionaires are funding with their money. All of these manosphere bullshit podcasters keep pushing men into misogyny and violence and social media giants enable them. They are not the root cause of the problem but theyāre intentionally making it worse.
Weāre seeing a very deliberate campaign targeting half our population with vitriol and violence. This isnāt free speech anymore, itās terrorism.
After I posted my comment it occurred to me that people threatening women with rape in internet comments and DMs is definitely part of this story. If those threats are normalized, you donāt need to direct a specific person to attack another specific person, you can just trust that it will happen eventually, like other varieties of stochastic terror.
Yep! Itās also a stage of the radicalization pathway that the alt right pioneered. Each step primes people for the next as well as making them sympathetic to those even further down the line. While the person whoās only involved in light misogyny spaces may in theory oppose rape threats and rape, they may very well find themselves talking about false accusations or how you canāt control people on the internet or rapists. By having those reactions theyāre already priming themselves to maybe be interested in communities where among other things some members make fun of rape victims that the community has decided are liars.
I wish I could upvote your comment more than once.
Completely insane that there are comments here assigning any degree of blame to her for this situation. The fact that it was 2 in the morning isnāt an invitation to rape or be otherwise assaulted.
Hell, I donāt care if someone were nude and fixing a sign that advertised their services as a prostitute. Still not āasking for itā.
Iāve been shocked and disgusted to learn the mundane activities that my wife considers too unsafe to risk. Not just being out alone at 2am, not just being out alone at night, but being out alone at all. I go for solitary hikes in the woods to restore myself but she wonāt even walk her German shepherd in an area where she canāt see other people at all times.
I mention all this not to say āthese are the rules - women should know to follow them.ā
I mention all this with outrage that anyone anywhere should ever feel like they need to live this way. These are completely unreasonable limits for any human being. It truly breaks my heart that my loved one will never know the joy of sitting meditative at a mountain peak looking out over the valley where we live, or know the pleasure of walking her dog under the stars.
Same. My wife has told me there is a massive difference between going shopping and I just tag along and going by herself. Even in public areas, she just notices less stares and gets less random comments from men.
Once, long ago, I dated a woman with really flashy good looks. Pale blond hair, big tits, beautiful face, the works. She got so much attention that even when I was with her I could sense it myself. In fact I got a special form of the āmale gazeā which was reserved just for me: these sneering looks like āwhoās that piece of shit with her?ā It wasnāt an all day every day kind of thing but if we went out to bars it was palpable. It was very interesting to actually get a personal taste of that kind of attention. As a dude you typically just have no idea.
Iām sure the cops will definitely use the flock cameras to identify her attackers.
/s
Wouldnt you know it, it happened in a gap of camera coverage. This wouldnt have happened of the liberals hadnt been pro-rape and forced us to get rid of the cameras that would have caught this! We should get 30,000,000 dollars in new funding to expand AI cameras across the area!
/s
I feel so sorry for this poor woman having to endure this, It is a terrible violation and tragedyā¦ but if it happened specifically because of her politics, then that opens a very very dark door for our future, and thats saying something considering rape is already a dark door in and of itself.
It likely was politically motivated the rapist said ā-ic bitchā to her and I think she was right that the full word was democratic. She was also attacked while fixing a political sign which probably wasnāt a coincidence. This is disgusting.
The same cops whose body cams conveniently malfunction every single time theyāre accused of malfeasance or gross abuse of of excessive force? Color me not-even-mildly-shocked
The police: āare you sure it wasnāt just some sort of misunderstanding?ā
why would the cops investigate themselves
āWe investigated ourselves and determined we didnāt do anything wrong. Case closed.ā
This is a horrific story. We need stronger laws surrounding rape. I guarantee you, that if republican men were being raped, we would have death penalty laws against rape.
Whatās needed is not stronger laws so much as consistent and motivated enforcement of the existing laws. If nobody is bothering to investigate the crimes that are reported, fewer victims are going to report crimes, and the perpetrators are going to be emboldened.
Exactly. Ask any cop about their untested rape kits.
They get them and then they donāt do shit with them.
If itās not murder, it didnāt happen on camera, and it didnāt happen in a car cops couldnāt care less unless itās really easy. Like easier than testing a rape kit and matching it to a database of sex offenders and other rape kits (which should be pretty damn easy). Speaking as a victim, I knew cops were fucking useless, but Iām very vocal since my experience about how brazenly they donāt care. Like, to the point they didnāt notice the footprint under a window with a cut screen and insisted we mustāve left the door unlocked.
I have no doubt that there are serial rapists out there with many samples of their DNA sitting in police offices untested with none of the victims knowing that the rapist has targeted a lot of people already.
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The sentence in the middle of your comment is technically true, but the surrounding joviality of lol and stupid emojis is horrible.
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There are literally over a dozen people on Lemmy. There may even be more than twice that. Donāt expect a single, cohesive view on anything. Itās rare enough for even a single person to have cohesive views. If you expect a single, cohesive view from a group of multiple people, thatās about as realistic as expecting your romantic relationships to work like ones in Disney movies. The person calling for the death penalty as a comment on one post is probably not the same one calling for care in handling a homeless manās issues. This is a collection of individuals, not a collective hivemind.
Itās a ten day old account shill account. They speak fluent Youtube comment because thatās where their experience is.
Newbies often need guidance on the norms of the space they have come into. Hopefully, they will learn.
citation needed
Laws donāt prevent rape because theyāre not enforced. As weāve seen with the Cornell case.
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The laugh emojis are a weird thing to add.
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Hate cops but now expect them to help you?
So you admit that they canāt be expected to do their jobs? Weird take from someone who supports the police. Maybe if they actually did their jobs they wouldnāt be so hated.
Expect the harshest punishment for rapists, but homeless criminals should be excused at all cost no matter what they do
Oh, youāre here to strawman. No surprise there.
- Expect the peeps to be caught ASAP but hate flock cameras
Is that not what theyāre for? Why would you be against them being used for what theyāre allegedly for?
Fucking HYPOCRITES
If you were smart enough to know how dumb you are youād be embarrassed.
So you want police to stop brutalizing marginalized communities but also donāt want to be randomly assaulted and raped?
Like most things in life, itās a binary choice and you canāt possibly have both
Itās hard to read sarcasm on the internet, let alone in a thread with an already-established troll on the loose.
Ok fair enough, I thought it was clear but I see your point
So you want police to stop brutalizing marginalized communities
Yes?
but also donāt want to be randomly assaulted and raped?
Also yes?
Like most things in life, itās a binary choice and you canāt possibly have both
Why the hell not? Where is that written down?
Sorry I was trying to be sarcastic and the point i was trying to make was essentially the opposite of what I said, which I recognize could be confusing.
Most things are not a binary choice, and if we were going to have real police reform we would need to have difficult conversations about how much policing snd what type is the best to ensure public safety without having the policing itself become a public safety concern. But that reform isnāt coming, so we probably donāt need to have those conversations
You want both? How about neither. Donāt worry you still wouldnāt have gotten either had you picked just one. Anyways, weāve decided to do a bunch of overtime not doing anything beneficial and massively outspent our budget. Anyways you donāt really need those libraries, sidewalks, or schools.
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No they are untouchable victims to you fucking hypocrites
Lol. Who told you that?
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Are the leftists who think these things in the room with us now?
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I believe that you do.
Arenāt you American?
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Expecting cops to do their jobs is hypocrisy?
What is even happeningā¦
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I donāt think that word means what you think it means.
Uhhh surveillance definitely doesnāt prevent a thing
No one here is calling for more surveillance to curb this.
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I understand the memory block the trauma of rape can cause. My ex drugged and raped me in my own home, in my own bedroom, during my own goddamn birthday party with family and friends just a shout away. Everyone thought I was just super fucking drunk, as I had turned 21 and was drinking heavily. I was drunk, but the drugs I was given in the last drinky ex gave me had me unable to stand within minutes. My ex told everyone heād go tuck me in so I could rest and everyone thought the last of the alcohol Iād had hit me all at once. He essentially dragged me to my bed and tossed me onto it like a sack of potatoes. I didnāt pass out as quickly as I would have liked. The drugs paralyzed me and I was very much aware of the things my ex was doing, but I couldnāt do a damn thing about it. Thankfully I passed out before he started the penetrative part of the rape. I woke up naked and in awful pain all over, but especially down there. I often sleep nude or nearly nude because I get overheated easily, so I didnāt think anything of it and figured the pain was just a hangover.
I blocked out all memory for five years as a survival mechanism and my mental health tanked when the memories came back. It took another three years for me to seek therapy. All of the evidence is circumstantial, as he wore protection or was just unable to cum. There were no witnesses and no concrete evidence other than my memories that resurfaced, me waking up naked, and the pain.
The mental healing has been so rough. I canāt imagine what this woman is going through. Her experience sounds far more traumatic than mine was. I hope she can get the help she deserves and needs and that the bastards who hurt her get whatās coming to them. I will never get justice for what happened to me, but I hope every other victim can.
Thank you for sharing your story. Iām sorry you had to endure it and Iām sending warm healing thoughts your way <3
I can already hear the Republicans making fucked up jokes about this.
Donāt worry, we have proclaimed leftists claiming sheās making this all up for attention right here.
well, thereās the whole Kirk dance on the grave thing and he deserved itā¦
to be clear, what happened to her is beyond atrocious and I have zero ideas on fixing it and like climate change, I donāt think there is anyway to fix it.
Well, they thought Nancy Pelosiās husband getting assaulted was a real hoot, so itās all too predictable.
Also, they started crafting a narrative in which it wasnāt home invasion or anything, but because heās actually sooper dooper gay or something and it was a loverās quarrel. Tee hee, arenāt the conservatives so funny? Why wonāt the libs make comedy legal again?
Charlie Kirk said a patriot should āPay his bailā
Oh, Paulās assailant. Jeez, I didnāt know that.
We should totally be naming things after Kirk. š¤®
You can read them too, right under this story in the comments.
Thankfully no jokes, just conservative men doing what conservative men do when they hear a woman has been raped, calling her a liar.
The fact that they do this shit is why no one should believe them when they say they wanna āProtect womenā from trans people.
Fellow men:
Believe women. Do not allow mysogyny in your circles. Donāt even laugh at the jokes. Speak out. When you hear people talk about having harmed a woman or planning to, report it. Donāt just go on the internet and say youāre a feminist or support women - actually do it, every day.
100%. All the women Iāve been close to have been attacked, stalked, or harassed by men. Iām not letting these fucking assholes get away with it.
I hope she succeeds in life, and that those two men are killed. Rapists, just like unjustifiable killers, have no place among humanity.
There are many sleeping soundly at the whitehouse right now, on a comfortable taxpaid pillow.
Weāre all thinking it, we canāt say it, but we CAN say āwith a mortar launcherā.
Well, even if this was politically motivated, sheās not a conservative and doesnāt have the name Charlie Kirk, so Republicans wonāt give a flying fuck.
I fucking hate rapists with every fiber of my being. Iād skin god alive if it meant I could torture every single rapists that has ever walked this forsaken planet. The soulless, mindless, evil you have to have in you to force yourself on someone .
My partner is a survivor, and I swear on any god that is listening if I ever get the chance, god have mercy on my soul the things I would do to them.
Fucking sick motherfuckers.
wow, I donāt think people like this can be repaired. They should be locked away for life (with minimal comforts, basically a monk like life) and that energy should be spent on their kids and younger generation. Except ofcourse we are talking about the Trump administration, Trump probably thinks she got what she deserved. So yeah, quite hopeless.
I donāt think they should be in prison; wood chipper.
while I would agree for this particular crime, in general death sentence is very problematic. I have read somewhere that during certain periods as high as 1/20 death sentences can be wrongfully given. So I am ok if they live like monks in some tiny cell for the rest of their lives while wrongfully accused people at least get some chance for getting out and compensation (which is not ideal but way better than death I would assume).
Iām not a fan of giving the government the power to execute people either, but man I understand why people want it when stuff like this happens. I still think itās the wrong decision but I canāt get mad at people who support the death penalty.
Yeah, as a concept Iām fine with the death penalty. There are people who absolutely arenāt worth the trouble and should be deleted but we need to do a lot of work on how our justice system functions before it can be trusted to determine guilt well enough for that.
The solution to that is death penalty for the people who decide on it but are wrong, but this needs to come along with a robust all encompassing government whistleblower program as well as stricter rules on government officials and more forced transparency.
In the day an age of being able to deep fake convincing evidence on a whim, I dont think the government should have the power to kill anyone. Period.
Plus, death is too easy. Watching the world move without you in it thoughā¦
Reread the second half of my comment, those parts are necessary for the first part to even be imagined as remotely functional. Full forced transparency, no classified information, absolutely nothing can be hidden from the civilians (a necessary yet ALWAYS ignored part of democracy btw) on top of extreme protections for whistleblowers and a massive payout system for anybody who catches any wrongdoings by the government.
And you missed mine.
That its impossible to hold anyone to the standard you propose, because to allow it all, means it can be manipulated for others purpose.
Why give the execution power to someone else?
Thatās such a wildly disingenuous question. You know the answer but just in case you are being serious then consider āWhy give the incarceration power to someone elseā. Surely you arenāt arguing for absolute anarchism and rampant vigilantism, right?
Anyway, back to the original pointā¦itās not impossible if all government correspondence and data is fully public and never hidden along with a robust whistleblower system. We have to do something with the Epsteins,Trumps, Netanyahus, and Putins of the worldā¦why continue allowing them to take more from us all by incarcerating them where they also have the chance to return to their old heinous lives or even to just move the entire operation into their āprison cellā.
So who? The jury? The judge? The prosecutor? You would simply have no one attempt to give the death penalty in the case they could be wrong, which is almost always technically a possibility. Which is mostly just the same as not having it.
Easy out, labour camps.
Forced labor is slavery, and thatās not ok even for prisoners. Besides being a human rights violation, it incentivizes governments to convict more people of crimes and to impose longer sentences (I agree that sexual assault crimes are under-prosecuted, but that is one of the only categories of crime for which that is true, at least in the US). It also does nothing to promote rehabilitation.
Very good points. My comment was thoughtless.
This is the way.
May I offer a compromise? Send their genitals to the wood chipper and put the rest of their body in prison.
in the name of efficicacy, we should use the woodchipper to remove the aforementioned genitalia.
I believe in rehabilitative and restorative justice. But a necessary prerequisite for them to work is that the guilty understand what they did was wrong and want to change. Rapists, much like domestic abusers, in our society very rarely feel that desire.
Someone who would do something like this has something seriously wrong with him, but it seems to me like it may be more likely to be an illness of society that heās symptomatic of rather than an individual mental illness. He needs to be kept under control for the safety of others until we can find a way to make people like him eligible for restorative justice, which I doubt he will live to see.
This is the kind of rape which coldly reminds you that there are levels even within this kind of monstrosity. And as you yourself alluded in other posts, this particular person seems to be on the worst level of it, or close to. I do agree that it might have a perfectly reasonable and even sympathizable explanation, for instance perhaps he was regularly sexually abused by a parent when he was a kid and thinks that rape is some sort of punishment (which also counts as a societial source too). But unfortunately I find it hard to believe that there is a turning point from this sort of mental ilness/character once you are elbow deep in it. The only reasonable way forward for me is to change the society by conditioning younger generations and saving them from abuse, not spending time and energy on individuals that are too deep in such a pit.
I want to be clear about what I meant by social illness. It is an illness of the society which manifests in the behaviors and values of people, fascism being the prime example. I think these men (read the article and itās actually two men) have been radicalized to the point where they are acting in a complete incongruity with near universal understanding of right and wrong. And in that vein the systems to rehabilitate them are ones that we need to build for the people less radicalized than them. The same applies for dealing with rape culture in general. The difference between these men and your everyday rapist or everyday far right chud engaging in stochastic terrorism seem to me to be ones of magnitude, not kind.
I agree with your perspective, my problem has always been that people can be very deceptive. How would this system potentially deal with that? Asking because I like your idea and just havenāt been able to head-solve that part.
I donāt know. Even communities committed to restorative justice have broken stairs. But just because there are still issues doesnāt mean we should give up the pursuit of a better and more just system. Issues like this are part of why itād be stupid for a large government to just adopt what some communes and anarchists are trying, but taking elements, working towards similar aims, and encouraging such radical and voluntary groups to keep trying to innovate and find solutions are things we can do now
Agreed, even a half step is better than none in the right direction. Itās a worthwhile pursuit to spend time figuring it out. I donāt see any benefit in inflicting pain and suffering on someone as retribution or āteachingā. The system is deeply flawed as it stands now, thereās an endless number of things to be fixed. I have no idea what an ultimate solution might look like (not as a monolith but a process over time) but I have faith it can exist. Iāll take being proven wrong over giving up.
You have hope and itās a bit infectious. Kinda need as much of that as I can get these days. Thank you for responding, I appreciate it
I have no idea what an ultimate solution might look like (not as a monolith but a process over time) but I have faith it can exist. Iāll take being proven wrong over giving up.
I strongly believe it lies in education. Sex education, reading from different perspectives, understanding what consent is and is not, understanding empathy. We need to be teaching our youth the value of respect and consent. They need to read books written by women from the perspective of women. We need to teach them that women deserve a place in our government, our universities, everywhere.
Thereās proof there that we can create a better society for everyone this way.
Even if our pursuit is doomed I believe we still owe it to ourselves and each other to work for a better world. Itās both a matter of practicality and a matter of character. Surely things can be done better, but also we must every day choose who we will be, we choose the contents of our souls continually, and since we choose we can choose better, and when we donāt know what choice is better we can do our best and try to learn where we can.
I choose hope because we are people, even when things are bleak, and people can change. We can innovate. We can reorganize. We can learn and choose better. Perfect is impossible, but better always is possible.
Two books I recommend for hope are The Dawn of Everything by Davids Graeber and Wengrow, which show that society has been organized wildly differently in the past in ways most people donāt know because itās relatively recent archeological and anthropological knowledge, but also it goes against the two competing ācommon knowledgeā accounts of how civilization got to be this way. And The Dispossessed by Ursula K LeGuinn (cw the protagonist does rape someone), which imagines an anarchic society, struggles and all, which feels very real and like it may someday be possible, especially to those whoāve had plenty of experience in anarchy adjacent communities, spaces, and projects.
While Iāve seen my fair share of rapist who got rehabilitated, I do not think this one will be able to, especially as those who do it as a form of punishment (which it was from the limited details) are really hard to cooperate with.
Fundamentally rehabilitation is a two way street. Society has to provide the tools and resources to help change, but the criminal has to want to change and choose to do so. I highly doubt this man will ever want to change.
I hate calling everything terrorism, but raping a political candidate over her party sure fits my understanding of terrorism, same as last yearās political assassination.
Terrorist states love using rape as terror. Thereās at least two at this moment, Israel and Russia.
Wow. Top Ten Incels of Lemmy are all here, and I know Iām not even seeing all of the comments because some are already blocked.
At the risk of being called a ānot all men apologistā here, I, as a man, canāt fathom how anyone could be motivated to rape someone. The mere thought of violating consent to such a degree is physically repulsive to me. And to then add physical assault to that and violate someone who is unconscious, I am at a loss for words. In fact, I canāt even being to imagine how you can even go through with that act physically.
At some level it makes me think that the people perpetrating these acts arenāt even human, but thatās also a way too convenient excuse to let them off the hook. The really challenging part for me (and I suppose many other men) is accepting that they ARE human, and they walk among us. I have no idea how to deal with this, legitimately.
I always presume that everyone I meet is a reasonable, non-violent, ānormalā person, and itās things like this (rape statistic numbers) that shatter that world view to the point of leaving me simultaneously feeling incredibly angry, powerless, and paranoid about my fellow humans.
I am so sorry for her and all other victims whoāve had to experience something so far beyond what I can even begin to imagine, and I know that nothing I say here will make a difference. I hope youāre able to heal back to some semblance of yourself before this happened to you, and I will support both monetarily and vocally any effort to eradicate this behaviour from our societies.
Downvote me if you want for providing this personal perspective in a thread about a victim (and victims) of rape. I donāt intend to grandstand here, take attention away from the victim(s), or make myself look like some sort of white knight. I just need a place to share my perspective and I hope Lemmy will allow me to do so.
Because we have learned that about 25% of us are pasychopathic sadists.
The rest of us have empathy, which means that we can never feel good if we hurt someone.
A psychopath doesnāt care if they hurt someone
A sadistic psychopath, enjoys otherās suffering and will do anything to satisfy that urge. This is what MAGA is. The white house is staffed with sadistic psychopaths that post ASMR videos of immigrants in chains. They laugh as ICE agents brutalize and kill people. When trump just said heād be ok with Iran nuking two CA cities, his crowd CHEERED.
Our country is infected with sadistic psychopaths and they are in charge now. They took the DOJ, FBI, Military, and the whole government. This is the law of the land now since everyone was ok with it. There is no going back, only making something new if 75% of us could ever get our shit together
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I appreciated reading this. Acceptance of how the world looks to different people is a journey and we all are on different parts of that journey. Itās enough to keep an open mind about how your experience isnāt universal and extending empathy to those on a rougher path.
Itās a hard lesson to learn that not everyone is reasonable and non-violent. Iāve had to learn that one a few times over to be perfectly honest. Most people want to give others grace.
I gave your comment an upvote for the record :)
