The spectrum of antagonistic opinions is much wider than just hateful opinions. There are people who are totally fine with trans, but consider the minimum age for HRT should be higher, or it should have solid medical proofs of dysphoria actually happening, or people who consider that there are way too many people taking HRT nowadays who don’t really need it and are only tricked into it by the influence of social media, etc. It’s very easy to label them all as fascists and it’s happening all the time.
You chose a pretty poor example. People don’t spend years seeing doctors about transitioning without being slightly very gender disphoric. One trans dude I know literally had so many hoops to jump through including having multiple kids before they could finally convince their doctors to prescribe HRT because the doctors kept saying “well you might change your mind though! What if you want kids? What if you want to breastfeed? What if you just don’t like the way you look and that’s why you’re trying to transition?” Etc.
Or just look at the viral tweet of the one trans woman being like “yeah I offered a single hormone pill to my buddies as a joke and they all recoiled in horror”
A better example for holding actual debate would be arguing over how to approach the housing shortage in America, or the best approach to reducing the wealth gap. Basically anything where you can agree on the premise and debate policy. This is usually how I talk to republicans at work or in my family, I focus purely on policy because generally people can agree on problems that they can see, and if you can avoid the common turns of phrase that political pundits use you can probably even agree on some policy ideas. I had a brilliant conversation with some conservatives at work recently regarding insurance where we basically were all in agreement of “holy shit something has to change here now that we have multiple disasters a year wiping out entire cities and counties”
You chose a pretty poor example. People don’t spend years seeing doctors about transitioning without being slightly very gender disphoric.
Aren’t people who are NOT medically gender dysphoric able to receive HRT nowadays just because they want? I personally get an impression of trans becoming more like a subculture, and that teens can start transitioning just because it’s cool. Like, what was an emo and other kinds of scene kids in 2000s, now trans-culture occupies that niche to some extent. Which naturally raises concerns since it has way more serious consequences than just wearing a certain cloth and makeup.
I don’t work in healthcare and I have not needed gender affirming care myself so I can only rely on what I hear from the trans folks I know, and none of them had an easy time getting the healthcare they need. Everything I’ve heard indicates that it takes multiple years to begin receiving any kind of gender affirming healthcare outside of psychological so it’s not something people are going to go through on a whim. They have to be feeling a fairly significant amount of dysphoria to go through that much medical gaslighting and reach the first actually medical step of a prescription for HRT. But transgender, just like gender and sexuality is a spectrum. Some folks don’t want to do more than socially transition, some folks want to go all in but some will skip some procedures, and some are absolutely 100% and need to completely transition
There have however been actual pushes to try to create discorse exactly matching what you said “I’m not against trans people, I just think it’s too easy for kids to permanently modify their bodies for a fad!” And of course the more extreme version “you send you kid to school and they home fully transitioned! And if you try to do anything about it they tell you you’re endangering your child!” So definitely don’t trust anyone trying to spread this discourse
There have however been actual pushes to try to create discorse exactly matching what you said “I’m not against trans people, I just think it’s too easy for kids to permanently modify their bodies for a fad!”
Good way to deal with it is to explain it’s not true. Bad way to deal with it is to label people with those opinions as fascists and block them immediately.
This only happens when you are dealing with someone who is pushing the agenda or spread certain narrative on purpose. This is always a small minority of people, and there are way more people that simply believe their agenda and not have anyone to explain them it might not be true. It might actually be a tactic to have professional posters who never give up even if proven wrong and thus make you feel like it’s pointless to argue.
Aren’t people who are NOT medically gender dysphoric able to receive HRT nowadays
In civilised countries, yes. And that is a good thing. Not having dysphoria does not mean that someone is not trans and this gatekeeping is a huge part of the problem,
teens can start transitioning just because it’s cool.
This literally doesn’t happen and is just fear mongering.
Also it’s presenting transitioning as the only choice. Guess what, not transitioning and going through puberty with the hormones that your body produces is also a choice.
Interesting that comments like yours creep up in a time where the Trumptard propaganda machine tries to vilify trans people.
In civilised countries, yes. And that is a good thing. Not having dysphoria does not mean that someone is not trans and this gatekeeping is a huge part of the problem,
Imo, it’s best to gatekeep it as hard as possible for teens and make it a choice for 18+. For mostly the same reasons as many other limitations for kids/teens. So, if you’re 14, you can only get HRT if you have seriously thoroughly medically proven gender dysphoria, but for 18+ you can just have it as a choice.
This literally doesn’t happen and is just fear mongering.
Okay, hope you’re right, I can’t really judge what’s going on in America since I’m from country where trans are extremely rare. It’s probably an impression formed by social media that in America trans is almost like a teen subculture.
Again, not transitioning is also a choice, a choice informed by ideology and forced upon the child. Anti-scientific bullshit.
Doing nothing to the condition that was unrecognized for most of the human history and nowadays is still not widely known or still being questioned can also be inertia or cautiousness rather than forced ideology. It’s only anti-scientific if people get to know all the science behind it and proceed to deny it. But in my previous post I don’t call to deny it for minors I only meant that minors shouldn’t be able to do it on a whim, without proofs of condition being present. And for those without condition, not transitioning is not a choice in the same sense, because it doesn’t carry negative consequences, while trying to transition actually can.
Also, there are just as many trans people in your country as anywhere else. They are probably oppressed enough to not come out the closet.
This is also a way to explain it. No way to check which one is real, but it is certainly a possibility.
Only if the judgement of whether someone is a fascist is always perfect and flawless. But in practice there are way too many false positives, and the accumulation of them leads to increasing isolation from uncomfortable opinions, which makes ones mind even less frustration-tolerant in the long run which leads to even more false positives in future judgements.
You could qualify it as that if the consequences I described were purely hypothetical, but they were already reached and demonstrated in practice countless times.
Often? I was thinking of some high-profile examples and I think a good one would be the Godot drama, where the moderation team accused users of being “fascists,” “bigots,” and similar terms, and proceeded to ban them when those users asked to keep political agenda out of the project.
The endgame of this is immediately labeling any person showing the slightest signs of a different opinion as a fascist.
Hate is not an opinion :)
The spectrum of antagonistic opinions is much wider than just hateful opinions. There are people who are totally fine with trans, but consider the minimum age for HRT should be higher, or it should have solid medical proofs of dysphoria actually happening, or people who consider that there are way too many people taking HRT nowadays who don’t really need it and are only tricked into it by the influence of social media, etc. It’s very easy to label them all as fascists and it’s happening all the time.
Except that literally nobody who’s not a Russian bot, has those “antagonistic opinions”.
Fact: fascists have caused millions of deaths.
Fact: most fascist accounts are bot accounts, from Russia, the US, and Israel.
Go educate yourself and read on Umberto Eco’s definitions of fascism.
This is obviously untrue, and with this faulty style of thinking you simply dismiss everything that isn’t exactly your opinion.
How is this relevant? No one is asking to listen to actual fascists.
You chose a pretty poor example. People don’t spend years seeing doctors about transitioning without being slightly very gender disphoric. One trans dude I know literally had so many hoops to jump through including having multiple kids before they could finally convince their doctors to prescribe HRT because the doctors kept saying “well you might change your mind though! What if you want kids? What if you want to breastfeed? What if you just don’t like the way you look and that’s why you’re trying to transition?” Etc.
Or just look at the viral tweet of the one trans woman being like “yeah I offered a single hormone pill to my buddies as a joke and they all recoiled in horror”
A better example for holding actual debate would be arguing over how to approach the housing shortage in America, or the best approach to reducing the wealth gap. Basically anything where you can agree on the premise and debate policy. This is usually how I talk to republicans at work or in my family, I focus purely on policy because generally people can agree on problems that they can see, and if you can avoid the common turns of phrase that political pundits use you can probably even agree on some policy ideas. I had a brilliant conversation with some conservatives at work recently regarding insurance where we basically were all in agreement of “holy shit something has to change here now that we have multiple disasters a year wiping out entire cities and counties”
Aren’t people who are NOT medically gender dysphoric able to receive HRT nowadays just because they want? I personally get an impression of trans becoming more like a subculture, and that teens can start transitioning just because it’s cool. Like, what was an emo and other kinds of scene kids in 2000s, now trans-culture occupies that niche to some extent. Which naturally raises concerns since it has way more serious consequences than just wearing a certain cloth and makeup.
I don’t work in healthcare and I have not needed gender affirming care myself so I can only rely on what I hear from the trans folks I know, and none of them had an easy time getting the healthcare they need. Everything I’ve heard indicates that it takes multiple years to begin receiving any kind of gender affirming healthcare outside of psychological so it’s not something people are going to go through on a whim. They have to be feeling a fairly significant amount of dysphoria to go through that much medical gaslighting and reach the first actually medical step of a prescription for HRT. But transgender, just like gender and sexuality is a spectrum. Some folks don’t want to do more than socially transition, some folks want to go all in but some will skip some procedures, and some are absolutely 100% and need to completely transition
There have however been actual pushes to try to create discorse exactly matching what you said “I’m not against trans people, I just think it’s too easy for kids to permanently modify their bodies for a fad!” And of course the more extreme version “you send you kid to school and they home fully transitioned! And if you try to do anything about it they tell you you’re endangering your child!” So definitely don’t trust anyone trying to spread this discourse
Good way to deal with it is to explain it’s not true. Bad way to deal with it is to label people with those opinions as fascists and block them immediately.
Nope. By the time you are done refuting their bullshit they will have spouted ten more lies. The best thing to do is deplatforming.
This only happens when you are dealing with someone who is pushing the agenda or spread certain narrative on purpose. This is always a small minority of people, and there are way more people that simply believe their agenda and not have anyone to explain them it might not be true. It might actually be a tactic to have professional posters who never give up even if proven wrong and thus make you feel like it’s pointless to argue.
In civilised countries, yes. And that is a good thing. Not having dysphoria does not mean that someone is not trans and this gatekeeping is a huge part of the problem,
This literally doesn’t happen and is just fear mongering. Also it’s presenting transitioning as the only choice. Guess what, not transitioning and going through puberty with the hormones that your body produces is also a choice.
Interesting that comments like yours creep up in a time where the Trumptard propaganda machine tries to vilify trans people.
Imo, it’s best to gatekeep it as hard as possible for teens and make it a choice for 18+. For mostly the same reasons as many other limitations for kids/teens. So, if you’re 14, you can only get HRT if you have seriously thoroughly medically proven gender dysphoria, but for 18+ you can just have it as a choice.
Okay, hope you’re right, I can’t really judge what’s going on in America since I’m from country where trans are extremely rare. It’s probably an impression formed by social media that in America trans is almost like a teen subculture.
Again, not transitioning is also a choice, a choice informed by ideology and forced upon the child. Anti-scientific bullshit.
Also, there are just as many trans people in your country as anywhere else. They are probably oppressed enough to not come out the closet.
Doing nothing to the condition that was unrecognized for most of the human history and nowadays is still not widely known or still being questioned can also be inertia or cautiousness rather than forced ideology. It’s only anti-scientific if people get to know all the science behind it and proceed to deny it. But in my previous post I don’t call to deny it for minors I only meant that minors shouldn’t be able to do it on a whim, without proofs of condition being present. And for those without condition, not transitioning is not a choice in the same sense, because it doesn’t carry negative consequences, while trying to transition actually can.
This is also a way to explain it. No way to check which one is real, but it is certainly a possibility.
horse race test?
Hormone replacement therapy.
yeah ik, i was making a joke .
No it’s not. That’s a fallacious argument.
Only if the judgement of whether someone is a fascist is always perfect and flawless. But in practice there are way too many false positives, and the accumulation of them leads to increasing isolation from uncomfortable opinions, which makes ones mind even less frustration-tolerant in the long run which leads to even more false positives in future judgements.
No, I mean it’s literally the slippery slope informal fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
You could qualify it as that if the consequences I described were purely hypothetical, but they were already reached and demonstrated in practice countless times.
Countless times where people are wrongfully being accuse of fascist ideology? When?
I know they’ve done it with communism and socialism, but…
Often? I was thinking of some high-profile examples and I think a good one would be the Godot drama, where the moderation team accused users of being “fascists,” “bigots,” and similar terms, and proceeded to ban them when those users asked to keep political agenda out of the project.