100% a parody instance: https://maga.place/post/2245?scrollToComments=true
Even mention Epstein+Trump like that would be a site-wide shadowban posted on /r/conservative.
It’s good though. It’s plausibly pro trump.
I hate how maga people call themselves patriots. They are the most unamerican people ever. Everything they stand for is in direct opposition to the America ideals.
They’re welcome to it.
As far as I’m concerned, this is the entire benefit of lemmy/piefed/etc… They can have their space, and any other instance can choose not to federate with them so we aren’t forced to listen to them, unlike the alternative, where an algorithm forces them into everyone’s face.
Rather than telling them they don’t have the right to speak, we simply have the ability to shut our window and not listen to them.
Let them bitch at each other.
Can we build a wall around them?
and make MAGA Place pay for it?
This one gets it
I disagree with them being welcome, if we have more fascists over here eventually we’ll get overrun. Best to shut that door immediately.
Them making their own space actually lets us much more easily reduce our exposure to them - without their space we get them everywhere and each of us have to ban such users individuals to avoid their poison, whilst if they’re congregated in a server we can just ban that server and/or its forums.
In terms of the NAZI bar metaphor, this is more like the NAZIS setting up their own bar and congregating there rather than trying to take over other bars - everybody else can very easilly avoid even looking at the NAZI bar, much less going there and listening to them spreading their ideology - yeah, by default the sound of their activities does leak to the street, but in Lemmy we’re the ones who can chose to close the door, not them.
Compare that with, for example, how the Zionists captured news@lemmy.world and even up to a level the server itself, by seeking moderation and admin positions there: subverting an existing large traffic forum and the biggest Lemmy instance is way much more pernicious than what the other kind of NAZI are doing by setting up their own - easily avoided - corner.
You raise good points, but for me the issue is, the Nazis then still have their own bar. And that creates a hub for them to advertise, spread, and sow hatred. And eventually, to try to buy the owners of the media platform. This is the literal “embrace, extend, extinguish” playbook they’re using. Is that not a problem too? How could we combat it best?
I think it’s better if we shut down their bar and bar them from even coming to any bar.
They want to go to a bar? Either don’t be a fascist or shut up.
They would have one either way - I mean, just look at Twitter, Reddit, FOX News. Even when there weren’t such NAZI spaces bought and paid for by billionaires, NAZIs had their own websites, mailing lists and whatever.
Weakenning the freedom inherent to the Fediverse’s implementation just because the NAZIs might use it to create their own space is just indirectly constraining yourself because of the NAZIs, which IMHO is the opposite of what we should be doing.
Would you defend changing HTTP(S) and HTML to somehow stop NAZIs using it because as they are now they can be used by NAZIs to spread their message? How about e-mail? How about pen and paper?
You can’t just throw the baby with the bathwater “because NAZIs”.
If you really want to stop NAZI messaging altogether you can’t do it by Technical means, you have to do it by Social and Political means - Laws Censoring NAZI messaging - and even there, look at Germany that does it and all they seem to have achieved is that the NAZI symbology is hidden whilst a large part of the NAZI way of things is widespread in society (hence the AfD success) and some elements of it are even shared by the majority (hence Germany’s very overtly race-justified unconditional support of a nation commiting a Genocide). De facto Germany’s banning of NAZIsm hasn’t stopped the kind of Fascism like in the US right now or the AfD there, were they use the NAZI propaganda techniques and share many ideological elements with the NAZIs but just don’t use NAZI symbols.
Barring them from everywhere would be ideal, but if not that, barring them from as many places as possible would be good too. Billionnaires have too much power and they are the powderkeg, in my view, that enabled fascism. So imho, we need to reduce their numbers and wealth, redistributing it to everyone.
I defend barring fascists everywhere, and not compromising the resilence of the fediverse to censorship from fascists.
And as for social and political means… in Germany, the AfD has had fewer votes as a % of turnout, than what the Republicans got in the US. I think the real cure is to combat algorithms by the root, and to seize the power over them back to the left and anyone non-fascist (or not as insane).
I understand the feeling.
I also look at it Logically and that yields a more subtle take.
My point is that thinking that ANYTHING is acceptable to contain the NAZIs (even when it hurts the rest) is forgetting that the whole point of stopping the NAZIs is to protected everybody else and their freedoms.
I’ll give you a parallel example: start by “Everybody should be thrown in Jail to make sure all criminals are in Jail”. Whilst it would work, this is obviously senseless. Once that’s accepted the discussion becomes “how far should we go to make sure criminals go to Jail” and onwards to “how many innocents wrongly in Jail is acceptable” and “how many criminals who evade Jail is acceptable”.
All that is what lead to things like a Justice System with Presumption of Innocence, different sentences for different Crimes and an Appeals System.
When it comes to stopping NAZIs the same reasoning applies - “ANYTHING is acceptable” is obviously senseless (killing all human beings would certainly stop the NAZIs, but I expect we both agree that it’s a bit too much) so the discussion is then moved to “how far are we willing to sacrifice the rest in order to stop the NAZIs”, which is the area of thinking anchoring my original point - if the NAZIs are contained (by their own choice, even), then maybe it’s not worth it to sacrifice the freedom of the rest by mangling the Fediverse if all that would deliver as a result is the near-zero impact outcome of barring the NAZIs from their own separate space in the Fediverse whilst they can still gather elsewhere.
In my view by wanting that you asked originally, a far greater number of people than the number of NAZIs would sacrifice a lot for something that will make the NAZIs lose very little - or in other words your idea amounts to “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”.
I don’t think that “lets’ fuck up what’s important for almost everybody in order to barelly inconvenience the NAZIs” is a wise position, even if I understand the impulse to “just fuck those sons of a bitch no matter what”.
But, how would you inconvenience the Nazis then? How would you deter them from the fediverse?
I mean “welcome” in the most generic, passive aggressive Canadian sense of the word. Shutting the door is exactly what the strength of federated/defederated social media is all about.
Removed by mod
Except that what I call for is a collective defederation from those fascists.
The ones sectioning themselves off are the fascists by virtue of holding repulsive ideologies.
My friend, the person you replied to is that fascist.
Thanks for letting me know, blocked them. Blåhaj on, comrade!
Yeah man.
If they’re not with you, they’re against you.
Ooh ooh! Please mansplain the fediverse, 12 hour old account!
but I’m on Lemmy.World and I’m too stupid to understand everything.
And further it ‘should’ help build support for Lemmy et al’s right to exist
Thank you, now I love lemmy even more.
Except if you are on lemmy, if another instance user reposts their shit, your instance will get to see that because the devs don’t want to completely block their own propaganda.
That’s why I moved to Piefed, and the propaganda about my country has plummeted for some reason…
Safe spaces? Sounds like snowflakes to me
Another hive of pedophiles. Wonderful.
them: yaaah safe from the censorship of the fediverse
me: defederates🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀
Hot take (?):
It’s fantastic that there is a branch of MAGA who hates the corporate Internet as much as we do.
Beware of what? It’s no different than any other instance and capable of being subscribed to, scrolled past or blocked.
Stop advertising for them and let them have their federated echo chamber, just like the communists, socialists, leftists and others have.
Stop advertising for them and let them have their defederated echo chamber.
FTFY
it’s kinda funny though
damn, i gotta check out that place later. i wonder how MAGA will interact with the fediverse. like, how can you be anarchistic and bootlicking at the same time?
edit: this is hilarious.
bootlicking: check ✅️
“especially towards Americans”
well, at least this one i can understand. Now i have to think about What the Turtle said to Achill, somehow.
this gotta be a troll account. Why is there an “antifa” community on the https://maga.place/ instance?
Funny rule
I sometimes forget just how many tyrants use this platform.
The very purpose of the fediverse is to make censorship impossible as it’s decentralized, open source, and easily accessible to all. Meaning that anyone, anywhere can utilize these tools to launch their own platform on their own terms without fear of being censored. This applies to everyone, not just some.
The very existence of this instance, which is clearly just a parody, is enough to send a good chunk of the freedom lovers here to quickly take the mask off and turn into Mao where they want to take down the instance, infiltrate it, and censor it. The fact they can’t is proof that fediverse is working as intended. I, for one, welcome people from all over to use the fediverse. Having a social media that’s controlled by the people instead of corporations is a big plus for me.
Good to see maga entering the fediverse take away power and capitol from corporations
Okay, and? The whole point of the fediverse is that everyone gets a voice. It’s good to see more people adopting it too, even conservatives. It’ll be less of an echo chamber that way.
I’ve always wondered why conservatives insist on coming to the fediverse when conventional networks are more appealing to them and their ideals nowadays. Or is that still not enough?
Ideals don’t matter to them, what matters is spreading their propaganda far and wide.
Bingo. These are the same people who will say that most political violence comes from the left while removing a study showing the opposite: a study about a statistical trend that has been well known and documented for longer than I’ve been alive.
They don’t care. Their beliefs shape shift to fit whatever is most expedient in the moment. They will openly lie to your face, without even trying to hide that it’s a lie while they smile and say they’re being honest. The people who gaslit the nation about project 2025 only to have cabinet members gleeposting about implementing it on social media.
Truth is irrelevant and reality is an inconvenience. Hypocrisy is as dead to them as the corpse of civility they prop up whenever it suits their narrative.
They lie because they believe they’ll be part of the “in-group”, while in reality, they are going to be censored the moment their higher-up has the ability to turn on them without retribution.
They are fools, but not to be underestimated.
A lot if it is sowing dissent and breaking discourse as well.
When I was a conservative piece of shit, in my younger days, I had the most outlandish bumper stickers you can imagine. Probably more outlandish than you can imagine, actually, 99.9% likelihood. There were quite a few. I knew I was being an ass and I loved when it offended people, because I was miserable. Someone was paying attention to me. I was getting a reaction. I existed! Anyway, yeah, it can be as simple as “they get off on ruining your day cuz they’re miserable pieces of shit.” Speaking from experience.
Thanks for sharing. I’m glad you are feeling less miserable now.
Thanks. Take lots of psychedelics, everyone.
🤣
Good job being less of a piece of shit and congrats on the happiness. Any advice for helping people out of there?
Tl;dr version:
Take mushrooms in Amsterdam, say “it’s not doing anything” and also take your sister-in-law’s portion (turns out everyone is going to bed so you’re on your own for this first psilocybin trip, which should make it easier to…)
Cry for five to six hours, finally lose religion and 80-90 pounds (over next 6-12 months), get medicated for ADHD (not currently, but sure helps), continue occasionally microdosing and/or smoking pot until everything finishes clicking.
Now that was a wild ride to read
You should’ve been on the ride! It was indeed something.
Ok so I’ve got to make like the CIA and put lsd in fhe water supply? Got it. /s obviously
Funny though as me and a friend found religion through acid, though we stayed progressive. I do really wish more people would go trip in pursuit of better understanding of shared humanity
People can change. Even if that baby thinks they can’t.
Even if that baby thinks they can’t.
I worry you’re right.
That video is like a weirdly nostalgic confessional of my time in D.C. I was a huge piece of shit. Systematic theology book. Capitol Hill job. Little bitty bow ties. Speakeasies. Pork stuffed potatoes at Dixie Bones. People can change.
they want attention, which is why magat are so desperate for trump to recognize them.
“They turned potoooooooo into a conservative!”
Potoooooooo: “…i got better.”
they get off on ruining your day cuz
That’s true of everyone, though. Leftists find leftists grating, rigid with their insufferable call-out tactics, fixation on niche issues, clashing priorities, infighting, ease of provocation at obvious bait. We love to troll ourselves & just have a stronger capacity than the right to endure the left.
Same reason why tankies don’t just move to China, or why some Canadians had Trump bumperstickers: the point is to take over and wield authority as a weapon. Of course they try to invade and pollute every space they can and muddy waters wherever possible.
And they’ve been incredibly successful in doing so.
They need an audience to perform for. When ever you see a social media “safe space” for conservatives (Voat, Truth Social, etc.) they almost always wither and die. They need people to blame for being everything wrong with the world as well as react to their terrible takes, otherwise there’s no point in shouting their outrage and anger on the internet.
That’s fine. But how do they feel about beans?
They go everywhere because even if a bunch of people are like “fuck off nazis” there will be a few people that are like “oh hey you have some good ideas”.
That’s why they’ve been recruiting online since the beginning of the internet. Capture whoever you can that’s sympathetic and keep bolstering numbers by any means necessary. Worked out pretty well for them
Maybe us commies and socialists need to do it the same way, work against them.
Free platforms like the Fediverse would actually suit conservative ideals of freedom quite well.
If they cared about ideals, that is.
Or freedom
Since when do conservatives follow conservative ideals of freedom?
That’s a reason why it won’t work - see Reddit’s r/Conservative which lists every post as “approved speech only” aka “flaired users only”.
and the mods are associated with Russia too, not surprising why its the most repressive sub,(after the others got banned years ago)
You don’t hear them talk about free speech constantly? You don’t see conservative platforms popping up every week? Truth Social anyone?
Talking and actually sticking with those ideals are totally different things. What they do is called selective enforcement.
Maybe you should try joining that instance and see how far the “conservative freedom” goes?
Talking and actually sticking with those ideals are totally different things
Right, but we weren’t talking about sticking to the ideals, we were talking about the ideals themselves.
If those were the ideals, the Kimmel and Colbert firings never would’ve happened.
thats why they also favor discord too, have thier own echo chamber, and allow adminstrative controls like with facebook, and not having something like reddit ban system hovering over thier shoulders, plus propaganda mods that keep them from speaking out of line(like with r/conservatives)
Because this place isn’t censored for their side, they’re trying to break it.
If they get defederated, they just spin up a new instance and keep spreading their hate.
They got to emigrate the istance users aswell. Seems like a loosing game.
If the thousand instance users are controlled by three people, it’s not that hard.
We might not be there yet though. Elections are far enough out.
I expect 95% of Lemmy to be propaganda and manipulation when we get closer. There’s only so much that can be done to keep out nation states when all the users are anonymous.
And when you put your real name on things, you get cancelled.
It’s a bad time for the Internet, and I don’t have easy answers. Just be very aware that what seems to be “consensus” opinion might actually be twenty accounts controlled by the same guy or organization. They might even argue with each other, and just have the side they want to lose present weak arguments.
or they infilitrate instances by creating an account in there and just troll.
Ideals? You mean diet fascism?
FOSS is for everyone. Not wanting to be dependent on big tech isn’t uniquely a leftist ideal, and it should be obvious by now that the political affiliation and community guidelines of big tech companies are entirely dependent on the current political landscape, not any moral values or held ideals, and can change at any moment.
Not wanting to be dependent on big tech isn’t uniquely a leftist ideal
Are you sure? most people working on projects against big tech tend to be very left leaning. The conservatives love using the appeal of authority to silence minorities and voices they don’t like.
Right wing creeping up to take control of these spaces doesn’t make it their ideal.
I could be wrong. Can you name some popular projects against big tech by conservatives?
Can you name some popular projects against big tech by conservatives?
The entire alt-tech sphere, I guess, but other than that I can’t really think of many projects that explicitly say they lean right or left. As far as I can tell, most projects focus on working on whatever they’re trying to accomplish and don’t mention their political opinions for whatever reason, maybe because they don’t want to alienate their users and contributors or maybe because they are made by many people, each with their own opinions, and there isn’t a single shared belief system behind it, like ThePirateBay for example. We can try to infer what political stance someone holds, like the CEO of Brave, for example, who donated some money to an anti-gay marriage bill in 2008, or the CEO of Proton, who said some positive things about the Republican party recently, but I don’t think it’s fair to assign a political affiliation to the entire project because some of the team members expressed their opinions.
Are you sure? most people working on projects against big tech tend to be very left leaning.
I think that you make a mistake and assume that just because someone agrees with you on not wanting to be reliant on big tech, they also agree with you on everything else, or you read something like
We want to advance human rights and freedoms by creating and deploying free and open source anonymity and privacy technologies, supporting their unrestricted availability and use, and furthering their scientific and popular understanding
and falsely assign that to be a left-wing stance, when in reality most people, left or right, would support that. I haven’t seen any evidence that most people working on anti big tech projects are left-leaning. Most people don’t publicly share their political beliefs.
even bootlickers want to feel like they’re talking to other real bootlickers, in their online spaces, not just bot/LLM spam
Hmm, that sounds fair.
They don’t want their own spaces as much as making other people’s spaces are theirs too - aka “This is why we can’t have nice things”
Before Trump, the “traditional” social media was likely pushing the Democrats’ agenda (like the Twitter files under the guise of more moderation. Now the tactic is being used by the Trump administration just more in the open and in more traditional media (Jimmy Kimmel). Big media is such an easy target for govt influence when it’s all ad supported.
I’d bet they see the writing on the wall that the government has too much influence in social media. So this time they don’t want to be caught with their pants down when Democrats come back into power. The other thing I feel is on the horizon is the end of the ad supported internet. I’ve said it before, be prepared to do it yourself or pay for it. I guarantee the guys behind this instance is in the do it yourself camp.
Disclaimer: I am libertarian and view both DNC and GOP as different sides of the same authoritarian coin. Right wing flavored, left wing flavored, both are disgusting when it’s authoritarianism.
What’s the problem of those right-wing dipshits having their own instance? I’m trying to understand this perspective you all seem to have here.
Someone please elaborate the hesitancy of us accepting MAGA extremists having their own federated community?
Nobody is saying that they can’t, mostly what you’ll get is calls for defederation.
Calling for defederation is a matter of simply not accepting content or voting from the targeted instance. Everyone has the right to spin up an instance for whatever they believe, but everyone else also has the right to not pass your content through their servers or display it to their users
This isn’t to call to shut them down, this is to raise awareness so people can update block lists, instance admins to investigate/check with their users/mods on what they want to do
Yeah, isn’t truth social part of activitypub, just defederated… like Mastodon instances probably have blocks up if truth social doesn’t have it on their end
They can have it. We just don’t want to federate with them, which doesn’t prevent them from having their own instance all for themselves.
They’re totally allowed to, just as we’re totally allowed to defederate or block or whatever. The question is why are they here, when they have taken over all the mainstream places and don’t really need a federated niche community.
Because I don’t want to interact with them outside of very specific, and sporadic, questions. Their presence is an active detriment to me. Let them go back to truth social.
Are you the type that asks a cockroach or ant infestation to politely go away as well?
Is your argument here that your preferred way to deal with cockroaches is to let them have the run of your house? Hard to red anything rose out of that, given the context.
I need you to work on your reading comprehension and try again. Not going to spoon-feed you what I’m saying if you’re here asking me to spell shit out for you friend. Also this is not endorsement of said implications either.
Might wanna work on your writing skills there, hoss, because your comment reads exactly as described.
Maybe I’m too dumb to exist in reality?
You’re not making much sense to me. I ask this sincerely and without prejudice or malice. Are you feeling alright? Do you believe that having someone to talk to might help?
Im trying to tell you that fascism/MAGA is similar to an insect infestation. Would you like me to puree some food for you next and do the airplane thing with the spoon?
It’s perfectly fine to be frustrated, but please avoid demeaning others. I couldn’t detect sarcasm in either comment, so I read them straight. Lemmy is so averse to sarcasm that I can rarely notice it when it’s there. Were you initially speaking sarcastically?
Yes i was indeed being sarcastic. Apologies for the lack of “/s”, I keep forgetting I’m not smart enough to convey the sarcasm well.
Because they are trolls whose purpose is to actively harm everybody else. They do not deserve our tolerance.
Why would we want to talk to MAGA assholes who want to eradicate most of the userbase?
They’re allowed to make an instance, the software can’t stop them. They’re not required to be federated with.
Just like how you can say anything you want, you’re not required to have someone listen to it, or not have someone speak their mind about it back to you.
They’re insecure, hateful little twats, and the only comfort they feel is to spread their hateful insecurity around.
(imo)…because the AI/bot deluge is slowly but surely becoming more obvious by the day.
even bootlickers want to feel like they’re talking to real other bootlickers
Conservatives value the marketplace of ideas. The fediverse is a true embodiment of the marketplace of ideas. No wonder they are coming.
Is that really true though?
When living in the US, it seemed American conservatives seemed mostly to be oligarch shills and with very shallow and performative beliefs.
Mind you, I think there needs to be balance of sorts between left and right, competition to keep both sides honest. But this doesn’t apply to American “conservatives” who at least at the high level seemed to mostly consist of demagogues.
The “marketplace of ideas” phrase is a perfect example of the theatrical and performative nature of American conservativism.
Don’t lie to urself we both know that both parties are just as corrupt and bought out by corporate interests. The lefts beliefs are just as performative. Empathy for all people unless they say words we don’t like. Gun violence is bad and we should ban all guns but its OK to shoot some people for their opinions.
If the communists are to be tolerated so must the Nazis. Communism is responsible for more deaths than the Nazis their is no argument for one that does not also lend value to the other. I’m of the persuasion that both those ideologies are evil and wrong but those ideas must be combatted by rational discussion and the only way to do that is allow all to speek.
I’m neither a conservative or a democrat. I’m in fact not even a fucking American twat. But I have beliefs that strongly align with both sides and beliefs that strongly oppose both sides. Only in the struggle between ideas can actual change happen. Only through challenging the mind can greater ideas be formed. Fuck the political parties its not a football game where we choose sides and cheer for the downfall of our opponents it as a philosophical dance of ideas where the best shall eclipse all teams.
The marketplace of ideas is an idea it is a concept it is not consecrate it is not progressive it is its own thing and it requires all sides take part. Lemmy is a hard left echo chamber I would like to see lemmy represent the average person to grant all people a voice in the great marketplace of ideas. And to do this we need the rightwingers.
I never said anything about US democrats (who are centre-right) or leftists. And where did I say you are American or even that you are a conservative or Democrat. Why are you bringing this up?
I said something very specific, that US conservatives are beholden to oligarchs and even their alleged deeply held beliefs do not pass the basic smell test if you’ve lived in different countries / speak different languages and so on (this is true irrespective of you political views). It’s like claiming the United Russia party has deeply held beliefs. This is a ridiculous proposition.
Making claims that “US conservatives support the marketplace ideas” is exactly the kind of thing that brings up massive red flags. Conservative/Progressive refers to broad political alignment. You can have people in both camps who support the marketplace of ideas and those that don’t. You can also have people who like to make statements about supporting the marketplace of ideas for superficial reasons.
Hey Jimmy Kimmel, how do you like that marketplace of ideas? I heard conservatives sure do value that marketplace. Why can’t I hear you Jimmy?
Ohh that’s cos the left killed the guy who wanted free speech. Now they playing by your rules. You did this to yourself. The irony is palpable.
U wanted a culture war, u wanted to silence free speech. You are now subject to the paradox of tolerance. You could not tolerate descenting opinions so your opinions cannot he tolerated. Ohh the irony.
I think it’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational.
Sounds like they were playing by his rules? We both know there’s no evidence “the left” killed him but hey we all know how conservatives feel about facts right?
We both know he was datings someone trans. He had hundreds of hours in a game called “furry shades of gay”. Does either of those things sound like right wing to you?
Absolutely, hypocrisy and hating yourself are core tenets of the conservative experience in America.
Ignorance of facts logic and critical thinking seem to be the core tenants of your personal experience.
safe from the madness and censorship of the fediverse.
Sounds like they explicitly don’t want to federate. Unless it’s a parody site, I guess.
