I’m looking for a distro to contribute to finally make 'year of Linux desktop, to happen. For me, I see that as full UI/UX behaviour that behaves almost identical to Windows/Mac (eg no middle click to paste).
Which distro comes closest to it?
Getting hung up on feature parity with Windows and Mac is both a waste of time and literally impossible given the major differences between those two UIs. KDE already does most of that legwork anyway, and you can disable middle click paste easily.
IMO your time would be best spent making GUI tooling that doesn’t already exist. Identify a pain point for you that forces you to the terminal and start there.
Really great advice, was thinking of that myself recently. I’m considering making some GUI apps to address my terminal journeys. While I enjoy terminal, not everyone should.
Why would you want to disable middle-click-paste???
I couldn’t live without it.
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lol, sorry but in what world do you live in? NONE of the OS “just works”.
I’m sorry but this is such a trope. I watched someone using an up to date iOS phone. That thing is LOCKED down to no end, countless people claim that Apple are some kind of UX geniuses … well you look somebody trying to do anything as complex as watching a video on this and it’s a damn struggle.
Sorry for going on a rant here but the very concept is a lie. It’s like Windows being easier to use, it’s absolutely not BUT people have trained, at school (sigh) or at work, on how to use it. They somehow “forget” that they went through hours or even days of training and somehow they believe it feels “natural”. That’s entirely dishonest but why do I insist on this so much? Because it’s unfair to then compare Linux distributions to things that do not exist!
What “just works” but STILL is not perfect or flawless, is SteamOS on the SteamDeck not due to any “magic” from Valve but rather because :
- the hardware is very limited (basically selected to work well for it)
- the use case is very limited (start Steam, play)
and as soon as one start to tinker with SteamOS on SteamDeck by replacing part, adding USB-C devices, remote the r/w restriction on the OS, etc then again “just works” becomes “worked at some point”.
Solid rant. The amazing thing is how quickly people learn to live with whatever they currently have. It explains iPhone users.
The distro shouldn’t matter too much, but the desktop environment will.
I recommend using KDE if you want something similar to Windows, and GNOME if you want something similar to macOS.
Using a GUI also isn’t really dependent on the DE either for most programs. It’s dependent on whether or not a GUI for it exists in the first place.
and it usually does, but software discoverability is still bad on linux
Would suggest Linux Mint
I suggest LMDE not regular mint. Normal mint updates often and ocassionally with bugs while rare and mostly I see for gaming they do happen. Stability and reliability are king. So LMDE aka Linux mint debian edition. Its entirely the same as normal mint made by the same people but it’s rock solid unlike Ubuntu version.
Sincerely I’ve used both to game and daily pc usage even work. LMDE no questions.
Regular Mint is much closer to what the OP is asking for. It removes the crappy Ubuntu stuff but gets to benefit from the good stuff like better hardware support, GUIs for drivers/updates and PPA support which is especially important if you have an AMD GPU as it’s how you’ll get up-to-date Mesa.
lmde does not have all the pref panels like normal mint does. I always suggest against it, especially for nvidia users.
Mint, (?)ubuntu, and Pop!_OS are what I suggest because 1) most software install guides target these distros. Anything that uses a package manager other than apt means extra googling and pain for those who just want an OS that works and could care less about the miniscule advantages of one over another 2) stable releases and driver support and 3) similar UI to whatever they’re coming over from. Someone else ITT mentioned KDE for Windows and Gnome(or Cosmic once it’s stable) for Mac folk and I think that tracks well
Is MacOs “absolutely no cli”? It wasn’t when I was using it (admittedly, some 10yrs ago), except maybe for the basic things which any mainstream linux distro also provides.
What about Windows? Back in the day I would have paid to have a semi-decent CLI instead of being forced to use regedit (I hear regedit is still going strong, but I’ve not touched windows for an even longer period than MacOs)
Windows hasn’t been “No CLI” since the requirements for TPM were added to Win 11 at the latest. Arguably, it’s been even longer if you wanted to get any customization beyond “changing window border colors and desktop background,” or if you wanted to do “hacker” stuff like remove start menu ads, but I guess most average users just didn’t bother.
Resentment aside, this is more attacking the letter of the query than the spirit. At best, OP admits the terminal isn’t bad and scary but still wants a distro that works best for GUI-focused people, at worst their eyes glazed over and they stopped reading everything you said after “when I was using it”
What about Windows?
Every Microsoft forum suggestion:
sfc /scannow
Well, if you prentend iterm does not exist, you can probably still use a mac to browse the web.
Been in and out of Linux since 2006.
Linux Mint with Cinnamon DE is the only distro I’ve ever used that worked flawlessly for everything without needing to use the terminal at all. It worked so well it was boring. It’s the only distro I would recommend to a lay person
Kinda the same since 2006 (using Windows for gaming), however I never used Mint & for the last five (?) years installed Tumbleweed to various family & friends machines (it’s my daily driver too).
I only add this to the discussion bcs it’s a rolling release that is perhaps hard to break for a normal person & low maintenance (no real upgrades, zypper, btrfs).
I like to mention Tumbleweed bcs of how much time it saved me fixing other ppls puters (all of them very non-demanding tho).
Bazzite is the correct answer. Or steam OS. Anything immutable. Mint is not the right answer.
There is no right answer. While I love immutables, they bring their own set of problems to the table.
Sure but they answer the question correctly, whereas alternatives don’t.
It’s not about what you prefer, it’s about what meets the answer to their question most appropriately.
They are asking for a 100% gui/ui experience with not having to access the terminal.
The right answer to send someone to in that case with the ecosystem we have, is immutables. That what they are for.
They said GUI everything AND “just works”. I was more so referring to the latter.
My point is that nothing “just works”. With immutables, your system is less likely to break after updates, but introduce other headaches.
On a traditional distro, you can use pretty much any format. Traditional packages like deb/rpm, flatpak, snap, Nix, distrobox, etc.
That’s not the case for immutables. Bazzite primarily uses flatpak, but (1) not all apps are available as flatpaks, (2) not all apps work well as flatpaks, like IDEs, (3) apps may have permission issues that require some know-how and tweaking to fix. Bazzite also comes with Homebrew and Distrobox, but (1) Homebrew doesn’t have many GUI apps for Linux, (2) apps may not behave as expected in containers and don’t integrate as well. Finally, as a final resort, there’s layering but that (1) requires the terminal, (2) may not be allowed in the future as Universal Blue is going more bootc native without rpm-ostree support, (3) may not even run Fedora in the future if they like their “distroless” version more.
Linux Mint. Everything including full system version upgrades and GPU driver installations can be done via GUI.
The default look and feel is Windows-y, and the Mint team does a great job of pre-loading their distro with all the basic apps most people need, including a good printer app, scanner app, PDF viewer, media player, etc.
it really depends on what demands you are going to place upon the system…
gaming? have weird hardware? you’re gonna visit a command line and have to ‘research’ things…
but just basic tasks and well-supported hardware? many can give a mostly or even entirely ‘point and click’ experience.
i have a number of users on silverblue and endless that would be terrified if they ever had to open a terminal, and i rarely open a terminal on my own desktops (xfce manjaro, cinnamint, endless, silverblue)
OpenSUSE Tumbleweed has a GUI for almost everything. It has a nice GUI for basic system config, and uses YaST2 for deeper settings, and it uses Discover for Flatpaks as well as system library updates.
Although, I have seen a couple people say Discover shouldn’t be used for doing system updates because it can fail, and to only use it for Flatpak updates and installs. I dunno. But it’s not like typing
sudo zypper dupto do a distro upgrade is hard, so I just do that out of an abundance of caution.OpenSUSE has some other cool features too, like having Snapper installed by default for system snapshots. It’s pretty easy to roll back if an upgrade goes sideways. There’s a boot entry that lets you open a previous snapshot as read-only and then you can make that snapshot permanent by creating a new top-level snapshot from it. So then you can at least use your computer while you try to figure out why the upgrade you did failed.
You’ll probably want to use KDE as your desktop environment. It’ll be somewhat familiar if you’re use to Windows, and it has a lot of features that make it comfortable to use.
There are lots of good YouTube videos on why OpenSUSE is pretty cool. Check some out.
Second for Tumbleweed!!
The low-to-nothing maintenance rolling release (in my experience). I recommend it if you have to maintain computers of family & friends (no more release upgrades, out of the box snapshots, etc).It’s so friendly & hard to break (for a normal person).
I know opinions vary, but I also love zypper.
full UI/UX behaviour that behaves almost identical to Windows/Mac
You want Windows or Mac.
If you want a computer that you can do stuff like web-browsing, document/spreadsheet/pdf/slideshow editing/creation, gaming, or multimedia processing on, there are distros and utilities on Linux that make those more-or-less easy and beginner-friendly,
BUT it requires divesting oneself of the habits, behaviors, and paradigms of other operating systems and being willing to learn anew. Community-based Libre software is developed in an entirely different way for an entirely different purpose; because of that, it is nearly impossible to recreate the same software as for-profit proprietary software. One is made by a community hacking together a functional system that suits their needs, the other is made to generate revenue, and thus has to keep users dependent on it by trapping them in dark patterns and igorance of its workings.
If you just want “Mac or Windows, but free as in beer,” suck it up, pay the devil his due, and buy one of those OSes. Libre Software is an entirely different paradigm, and thus requires a whole paradigm shift before anyone will be happy with it; on-boarding people who aren’t ready to divest themselves of the old paradigm just leads to disgruntled users who blame you for anything wrong with their PC, and creates a market void in the FOSS community ready to be filled by corpo proprietary slopware.
Mint or Fedora require no more command line than Windows does.
I daily drive Debian and it doesn’t require CLI for anything other than troubleshooting the problems I caused myself. There has been one time in 5+ years where it booted to console because the maintainers made changes to the kernel that fucked up the legacy nvidia drivers, and it had a workaround of booting to a previous kernel until they fixed it within the week. For newbies that might be scary the first time it happens, but its an easy fix that still didn’t require the CLI.
But nowhere did I say Linux required the terminal, I was addressing a different part of OP’s question. I guess since it’s such a prevalent myth, not denying it is tantamount to implicit agreement, so here’s me denying it.
This is the right answer to this question. You have to be ready to learn a new OS if you want to switch to Linux. IMO that doesn’t mean you should expect to be doing everything through the command line but if even a ui difference is going to be a problem then it’s probably not time.
I mean pretty much any distro can achieve that even Arch based ones. For example with CachyOS you could essentially run it with say KDE and never need to open a terminal at all. Cachy includes Octopi as its GUI package manager and it works well. KDE can also potentially handle the updating for you.
you could also run say something like Bazzite or Nobara which is essentially the same. Nobara does have it’s own updater but i’ll be honest it’s kinda wonky sometimes and generally only starts off with access to its own repos.
Essentially at the end of the day the Distro doesn’t really matter in most cases. As long as it can utilize a GUI package manager or some sort of “app store” and allows easy installation of something like KDE then you’re good to go. The exceptions to this I would say would be like Gentoo or NixOS but as someone who uses NixOS…technically…it could potentially fit the bill. But that would require a bit of work to get it to that point.
Actually now that I think about it getting something like working on NixOS would be an interesting side hobby project to work on.
Linux Mint comes closest ime, but it really depends what you want to do. You should ask yourself this question: am I a power user? If the answer is ‘no’, and you just need to do basic media/productivity stuff, you’re going to have a frictionless experience with most popular Linux distros. If the answer is ‘yes, but I don’t want to learn another operating system’ then you should stick with what you know.
I’m going to comment again, not to be an asshole, but because this is an entirelt separate stream of thoughts from my previous comment:
‘GUI/UX for everything, absolutely no CLI’ approach
That’s not a distro thing, it’s a Desktop Environment thing. I personally use GNOME on my daily driver, but I’ve also used Xfce and MATE and gotten away with those. I’d say that GNOME is probably the most “idiot proof,” which is why I use it, but YMMV.
Linux “requiring the CLI” hasn’t been true for quite a few years now, it just has stuck around for a couple of reasons (imo):
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Tutorials/guides/advice about Linux tends to focus on the CLI because it’s easier to figure out someone’s OS and have them copy-paste a command, than to find out the specifics of their graphical setup and walk them through every window and button press.
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New users need to know and understand the difference between Kernel, OS, and Desktop Environment to find the answers they’re looking for.
If you tell Grandma that you installed Linux for her, the first time she tries to figure it out herself, she’s gonna search “how to change volume in Linux” on Google, and she’s going to be bombarded with a thousand answers all saying something different, most telling her to install programs, and most telling her to use the command line. Because Linux is not an operating system, it’s a family of dozens of operating systems that can each be configured thousands of different ways.
If you tell her “I installed Fedora,” she’s going to run into the same issue, but on a lesser scale. At least there’s only a few hundred different ways on a per-distro basis.
If you tell her “I installed GNOME,” she will look up “how to change volume in GNOME,” and find her answer. But now you need to explain to her the difference between the three, and when to include that information in her searches, and she will ask “why could I just say ‘how to X in Windows?’ and didn’t have to memorize 3 different names for the same thing that all give me different answers???”
And yes, your grandma will just call you to ask anyway, but what about when it’s your friend trying to figure it out at 3 am and he can’t get ahold of you?
Meanwhile, the terminal is (more or less) distro-/DE-agnostic. So their options are to learn more about how is Opperating System formed than they’ll realistically ever need to know, or use the reviled terminal. Such is the plight of DIY OSes.
Found this very interesting. Discovered I don’t know the difference between the 3. Duck duck went to kernel and didn’t really understand what I found. Can you explain the 3 like I’m five? Also - I have Linux mint - does that tell you what 3 I have and if not how can I find out?
Sorry for the delay, I’m a check-the-feed-once-a-week type lemming. I love computers, and I admire anyone who also wants to learn; I’m by no means an expert, but I am happy to share what I know.
A distro is a whole OS. An Operating System, as the name implies, is the whole system of software that makes a computer function and interactive (take input from a user, and respond appropriately). This may software definitely includes a Kernel (more on that later), but may also include things like a Display Server (software that acts as an intermediary between gui software and the display/screen), a Desktop Environment (a subsystem of related softwares that handle things like window styles, layouts, and icons), or even utilities (programs that you use to modify the behavior of other programs/processes).
In OSes, there is a fuzzy boundary between programs the user runs, and the low-level processes that run on hardware. This boundary separates “User Space” – programs and processes that run on behalf of the user – from “Kernel Space” – programs and processes that handle the hardware the machine is run on. Where most programs that you interact with are User Space – such as web browsers, video games, multimedia programs, or even most command-line programs – Kernel Space programs are ones that perform tasks like determining how memory is managed, or what processes are running during any given CPU cycle. The Kernel is the set of software that is reponsible for all this “behind the scenes” computer management. This means that the programs don’t have to be written to determine the specifics of the hardware they’re running on, it means that each program you run is much less likely to crash your PC, and it means that it’s a lot harder for malicious software to do serious damage to your PC or OS or other programs.
So that’s the Cliff’s Notes, now the ELI5 analogy version: an Operating System is like a grocery store. The Desktop Environment are all the visual elements that go into the experience, stuff like branding, signs, employee uniforms, displays, even the way the shelves are laid out. The customers are the userspace programs, and that means the employees (and the automated systems that help run the store) are the Kernel. Because the relationship between the customers and employees mostly revolves around the merchandise being sold, the merchandise will be analogous to the computer’s physical resources.
A customer can come in, select what goods they want, and check out, but they can’t stock the shelves themselves, nor order something that isn’t stocked, nor adjust prices, nor open the store if it’s closed. To do any of that, they need to ask an employee to perform those actions, and find a way to deal with it if the employee won’t or can’t. This also means the employees are responsible for opening the store, getting everything ready for the customers, cleaning up after the customers, and locking up the store after everyone’s left. This makes it easy for the customers, because they don’t have to bother with all the work that goes into shipping, pricing, stocking, theft, etc., nor do they have to worry about dealing with every possible type of shampoo they might come across depending on which grocery store they go to.
Also - I have Linux mint - does that tell you what 3 I have and if not how can I find out?
I can figure out 2 of the 3. Linux Mint is the distro / OS, and it runs on the Linux kernel. This is why distros like Arch and Debian and Linux Mint and Nix all get lumped together under the “Linux” label: they all run on the same kernel (and follow the same standards of OS design known as POSIX).
The Desktop Environment (DE) you have depends on which ISO you (or your friend) downloaded from the website, the editions are named by the DE–e.g., if you installed Cinnamon Edition, then Cinnamon is your DE. The other easiest way to tell is to run the terminal command
inxi -S– and remember to check the man page for it (man inxi, or online) before running random commands from the internet if you don’t know what they do – and then checking what it says under the section labeled "Desktop: "
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I installed Ubuntu on my father in law laptop years ago and it is still kicking. ( he’s 85 this year) He does whatever he was doing before. My smallest which is 12 has zorin installed in her first peesonal pc and never asked any help. I think that the response greatly vary by the use of the computer you have.
Exactly.
My parents are fully on Linux since early dual core CPUs & the only things that didn’t work or they didn’t know how to do was after upgrades. “They” hopped many distros (some very niche, but lots of years on Debians) & I soon came to realise that I don’t need to explain to them what I did when I would change distros.
They run Tumbleweed for quite a few years (5?) now with 0 work on my side (yay!!).
Then again, they (and other family and friends) aren’t demanding power users, they don’t even game.
