Yeah but with that extreme narrative we are all culprit by association with our ancestors. Like because I’m Belgian I am guilty of fucking over a whole continent ? Dude in Iran have it coming because at some point Persia was a bit into forcible borders expansion? And Germans… all of them are in the bag as well? That’s some extremely simplistic view on a very complex world.
As much as the situation in the states is infuriating we must not generalise and antagonise the good guys over there. We kindof need them to keep steering the situation for a better turn.
Yes, all adults of a nation are responsible for cultivating the culture of that nation. As I said in another comment, Trump (and MAGA) did not magically come from nowhere. They are the result of everyone in that country celebrating ego over humility, for turning a blind eye to real problems whilst circlejerking about moral authority and greatness, for chasing division over relatively minor issues rather than finding common ground on the major ones of our time. Americans of all political leanings have been projecting their own problems for decades whilst proclaiming to have “the greatest country in the world”.
As much as the situation in the states is infuriating we must not generalise and antagonise the good guys over there. We kindof need them to keep steering the situation for a better turn.
The “good guys” aren’t steering anything. They aren’t in control and the idea that things will be fixed if they were completely misses the point here. The American left is just as guilty of self-fellation when their chosen president stands up on a podium and jerks himself off about how his people are the greatest of all.
The adults of today? Or the children of yesterday when the cards were dealt? Maybe today’s children as well since eventually they are tomorrow’s adults…
I understand the rage but this is just too simplistic a view. And it doesn’t help, it just steer some shit.
The children of today will be adults one day, at which point they will have the same adult responsibilities as any of us. You can’t hold children accountable for the failings of adults, though. You seem to be making a backwards-looking, fatalistic argument that no one should be held responsible for anything because it all stems from somewhere in the past long before they were a responsible adult. I’m saying we have a responsibility as the adults of today to acknowledge the impact of history but choose empowerment and action to change our present and future. That starts with awareness and accountability, two things that are significantly lacking in our discourse currently (particularly discourse in the US, as I have been arguing).
Do you think that no one is trying to change things for the better? I don’t understand how you can blame every single person for the rise in facism we are witnessing in our societies.
Yes, I understand that. It was a hyperbolic response that didn’t engage with the point I was making, so rather than be drawn into a pointless debate about it I chose to interpret it in a way that allowed for more relevant discussion.
What would be concrete action to « change what we can » with regard to that past of ours? I’m trying to educate my sons so that they don’t grow being assholes and I behave as much as I can myself… but beside that it’s a bit unclear.
Also in my understanding being responsible entails to a form of accountability and control over the actions : I am very sure that in my line no fucking one was ever any of that wrt Congo. We’ve been on the poor paysan side for as long as I could dig.
i dont have a precise answer mate, but doing something is better than nothing. Les sages-femmes etaient en greve a l’hopital des marolles, bah j’ai ete leur filer des courses. Quand elle s’est fait interviewe par la rtbf, elles ont dit “on a le soutient des voisins”.
On parle pas de responsabilite personelle, t’as bien raison, c’est pas ma faute si les vieux coloniaux ont ete piller l’afrique, et pareil que toi, mes ancetres etaient cheminots ou bossaient dans les mines ou a l’usine. N’empeche que si on est un pays riche a l’heure actuelle, c’est en partie grace a la colonisation. C’est de la responsabilite societale, pas individuelle.
Je suis pas certain d’être tellement d’accord sur le dernier point. Je suspecte que ce soit principalement des individus qui ont bénéficié des pillages. Il y a eu des retombées evidentes mais la Belgique était déjà riche avant…
Généralement en ce qui me concerne j’essaie juste d’être qqun de pas trop mal mais je ne lierai jamais ça a une cause historique précise. C’est fallacieux pour moi. Et j’en ai pas besoin. De mon point de vue c’est un devoir absolu d’être qqun de « correct ».
Non bien sur, il s’agit pas de se culpabiliser. Mais bon, au niveau macro, c’est simple, des individus s’en sont mis pleins les fouilles, mais les institutions aussi. La BBL par exemple, ou de grands groupes industriels.
Yeah but with that extreme narrative we are all culprit by association with our ancestors. Like because I’m Belgian I am guilty of fucking over a whole continent ? Dude in Iran have it coming because at some point Persia was a bit into forcible borders expansion? And Germans… all of them are in the bag as well? That’s some extremely simplistic view on a very complex world.
As much as the situation in the states is infuriating we must not generalise and antagonise the good guys over there. We kindof need them to keep steering the situation for a better turn.
Belgian here. You better be on the fucking street coz the government want to kick out my wife
Yes, all adults of a nation are responsible for cultivating the culture of that nation. As I said in another comment, Trump (and MAGA) did not magically come from nowhere. They are the result of everyone in that country celebrating ego over humility, for turning a blind eye to real problems whilst circlejerking about moral authority and greatness, for chasing division over relatively minor issues rather than finding common ground on the major ones of our time. Americans of all political leanings have been projecting their own problems for decades whilst proclaiming to have “the greatest country in the world”.
The “good guys” aren’t steering anything. They aren’t in control and the idea that things will be fixed if they were completely misses the point here. The American left is just as guilty of self-fellation when their chosen president stands up on a podium and jerks himself off about how his people are the greatest of all.
The adults of today? Or the children of yesterday when the cards were dealt? Maybe today’s children as well since eventually they are tomorrow’s adults…
I understand the rage but this is just too simplistic a view. And it doesn’t help, it just steer some shit.
The children of today will be adults one day, at which point they will have the same adult responsibilities as any of us. You can’t hold children accountable for the failings of adults, though. You seem to be making a backwards-looking, fatalistic argument that no one should be held responsible for anything because it all stems from somewhere in the past long before they were a responsible adult. I’m saying we have a responsibility as the adults of today to acknowledge the impact of history but choose empowerment and action to change our present and future. That starts with awareness and accountability, two things that are significantly lacking in our discourse currently (particularly discourse in the US, as I have been arguing).
Do you think that no one is trying to change things for the better? I don’t understand how you can blame every single person for the rise in facism we are witnessing in our societies.
/u/an4g3l meant in terms of their ancestors. They’re not responsible for Belgiums occupation of Congo in the early 1900s.
Yes, I understand that. It was a hyperbolic response that didn’t engage with the point I was making, so rather than be drawn into a pointless debate about it I chose to interpret it in a way that allowed for more relevant discussion.
The whole continent I do not know, but the Congo Belge? Bro you won’t get away easy with this one.
Yeah because my ancestors who were very busy dying in the mines are complicit with the management of the times. All around good times IIRC.
I’m waloon too. We are responsable. It’s our responsibility to change what we can. We’re not talking about self flagellation.
What would be concrete action to « change what we can » with regard to that past of ours? I’m trying to educate my sons so that they don’t grow being assholes and I behave as much as I can myself… but beside that it’s a bit unclear.
Also in my understanding being responsible entails to a form of accountability and control over the actions : I am very sure that in my line no fucking one was ever any of that wrt Congo. We’ve been on the poor paysan side for as long as I could dig.
i dont have a precise answer mate, but doing something is better than nothing. Les sages-femmes etaient en greve a l’hopital des marolles, bah j’ai ete leur filer des courses. Quand elle s’est fait interviewe par la rtbf, elles ont dit “on a le soutient des voisins”.
On parle pas de responsabilite personelle, t’as bien raison, c’est pas ma faute si les vieux coloniaux ont ete piller l’afrique, et pareil que toi, mes ancetres etaient cheminots ou bossaient dans les mines ou a l’usine. N’empeche que si on est un pays riche a l’heure actuelle, c’est en partie grace a la colonisation. C’est de la responsabilite societale, pas individuelle.
Je suis pas certain d’être tellement d’accord sur le dernier point. Je suspecte que ce soit principalement des individus qui ont bénéficié des pillages. Il y a eu des retombées evidentes mais la Belgique était déjà riche avant…
Généralement en ce qui me concerne j’essaie juste d’être qqun de pas trop mal mais je ne lierai jamais ça a une cause historique précise. C’est fallacieux pour moi. Et j’en ai pas besoin. De mon point de vue c’est un devoir absolu d’être qqun de « correct ».
Mais bon, si se culpabiliser peut aider pq pas…
Non bien sur, il s’agit pas de se culpabiliser. Mais bon, au niveau macro, c’est simple, des individus s’en sont mis pleins les fouilles, mais les institutions aussi. La BBL par exemple, ou de grands groupes industriels.
Bonne journee copain