This is not a logical or reasonable comparison at all. The point is about having a culturally relevant person interested in the topics that allow us to bring relevant perspectives to the table. It’s much better as an example than say… a podcast like Joe Rogan and his buddies discussing war tactics.

Holyy shit that’s a lot of reading. I got through a lot of it so far and honestly, I’m reaching a point where I don’t think I’m smart enough to have any real commentary. I will say the sources are pretty questionable. One of the sites you listed has a .cn address so it’s directly controlled by the Chinese government lol. Medium and YouTube and a website claiming to be an independent journalist…

This is probably a conversation for another time, but what if we’ve entered a period where no information I have or you have is plain fact? It’s increasingly likely. We could be both horribly wrong with no other way to prove anything except what is happening with the 5ft circle around us. It makes sense if most media available is controlled by two opposed governments trying to influence their people a certain way that neither have good intel.

It makes sense to me that a country attempting to unify itself in terms of language, economy, politics, etc. would be harsh and even persecute minority religions. It has happened everywhere in history. But it also makes sense the US would deploy destabilizing propaganda and assets into all foreign nations.

Anyways, I’m fine admitting this is beyond my paygrade as a socio-economic and political enthusiast.

I’ll concede on the idea that neither of us were there and both of us believe our sources are correct.

So… my PhD Chinese friend says China will likely invade Taiwan if the US engages a ground invasion in Iran.

I said, no fucking way bro.

He said ya, because the US will be spread too thin. It’s a good opportunity for China to take control of the state with almost no recourse.

I asked, but what about the TCMC?

His response was that China isn’t interested in Taiwan for that reason, rather that it’s a historical mark that persists as a blemish in the “unification of China.”

We both agree it’s not very logical.

I admit that not an A+ source, but I believe he knows more about it than me and based on decades of political rhetoric surrounding Taiwan - it’s highly likely he’s right. China does not hide the fact they will take Taiwan as soon as the US cannot respond.

I’m not sure why that would even be a question. The US is only reason the impending invasion of Taiwan has not yet occurred. This is all very easily verifiable.

Don’t tell me what to do.

This is your argument? That this is allowed in a great example of Chinese socialism?

2022 report by the UN Human Rights Office (OHCHR) found that China’s arbitrary detention of Uyghurs and other predominantly Muslim minorities in Xinjiang may constitute “crimes against humanity,” citing credible evidence of torture, forced labor, and severe rights violations.

While the UN report did not formally label the actions as “genocide,” it highlighted evidence of coercive policies designed to suppress cultural and religious identity.

Key Findings of the UN Report:

• Arbitrary Detention: The report confirmed that mass internment camps, termed “vocational training” by the Chinese government, functioned as centers for detention.
• Torture and Abuse: Evidence was found of beatings, torture (including waterboarding), and sexual violence against detainees.
• Coercive Labor: Evidence suggests a scope of forced labor, with detainees transferred to factories or high-security prisons.
• Religious/Cultural Suppression: Policies aimed at “coercive Sinicization” forced individuals to abandon religious practices.

Brother. China sucks. The US sucks. Just get over it.

I’ll seriously consider what you’ve said with supporting evidence. It’s the first I’ve heard of this. I’m open to being taught.

One of my experiences in China was witnessing an underground Muslim gathering and religious ceremony. We were warned about why they must operate in secret due to potential government action.

If we do change the statement from genocide to persecution, I suppose China gets a better profile, but I don’t think it is a talking point that “China’s socialism is better than US Capitalism because of their religious freedom.”

My initial argument is still that both systems suck.

This one of the markers I would use for a “good” system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_Human_Development_Index

The Inequality Adjusted Human Development Index.

Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland… these are the leaders in this index. How? A high-welfare free market economy.

This is capitalism but with a foundation of human rights built on high taxes using examples like net wealth tax.

Incredible you can’t contain your insults or emotions. Guess you really are part of a shit system. I’m convinced!

Ya. The Bernie kind. Incredible isn’t it?

I truly love New Zealand’s system by the way. It’s a shining example in the face of the rest of the world’s failure.

Here’s a market that I feel is very relevant for a “good system.”

https://hdr.undp.org/inequality-adjusted-human-development-index#/indicies/IHDI

Do you agree?

Yes. China has many expats. The information was revealed to the world and the Chinese government’s response? Control the Internet, all foreign media, all history books, etc.

These are extremely well known topics across the globe. Don’t take my word for it lol.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1127087/

https://www.britannica.com/event/Tiananmen-Square-incident

https://ieres.elliott.gwu.edu/project/chinas-genocide-against-uyghurs/

https://www.columbia.edu/~qc2218/history.html

Explain to me how killing 30-50 million people is acceptable in this shining example of socialism. How about genocide? Massacre? What about Tibet? What about the impending invasion in Taiwan? Are these the everyday normal citizens taking their “control” over their system and saying GO FUCKING LEAVE A TRAIL OF BLOOD HERE AND HERE AND HERE?

It’s very very easy to point out that China has a brutal and immoral system with very common sense examples.

I just prefer my personal version because my memories of China were wonderful. As many Chinese visiting the US would agree. But the truth is obvious.

How about 30-50 million dead from starvation while trying to implement communism under Mao? How about Tiananmen Square?

Do you realize that the government punishes those who bring it up and leave it out of the history books for the younger generations?

What about Uyghur genocide?

You can walk around the campus of a Chinese university, ask person after person about the Tiananmen Square massacre and no one knows what the hell you’re talking about.

You think this is the shining example of socialism that should be implemented across the globe?

No thank you.

You don’t think the CCP* is hiding history from their people? It’s ironic you think I’m confidentially incorrect when I know for a fact you are. I don’t see this as an argument at all. This is me playing teacher to you so you can go research the many topics covered here that you don’t seem to understand. My original argument is simple. China’s system sucks. The US system sucks.

To think you can even define China’s system as socialism is ridiculous. No modern super power has an economy or government that abides by a single definition.

It is you and others here who have tried to change the argument to something you think you understand to try to “win.” It’s honestly exhausting. I’ve rewritten my thesis about 20 times and it’s still being ignored.

The irony: I like socialism. You people are simply too caught up in your own ego or something to let that sink in.

First off, I don’t have any right wing, let alone far right propaganda in my life. I’m a progressive. Do you think a MAGA idiot would go live in China themselves? Obviously not.

I don’t actually need evidence to be correct, because I saw it first hand. But I probably can prove it anyways. The simplest way: there are multiple definitions of literacy. They now call it functioning literacy in some cases. Others get very specific such as can they read a newspaper or write a statement about a topic? I do believe China is achieving great things with their younger generations. That, I also saw first hand. Although, they conveniently rewrite history as well. Completely covering up the atrocities the government has caused. That is pretty unforgivable.

Anyways, the older generation is filled with people who are still illiterate. They are not in school. They are not learning. They are working. And mostly happy by the way. Illiteracy is not a criticism on well being. That was someone else’s argument that “they must be doing well because they’ve achieved so much LITERACY.” Those are the happiest people I’ve ever met. Willing to share their food and home with total strangers. Their jobs and their lives and their happiness do not require literacy. That is why they will never change. Only once the younger generation has outlived the older long enough to reach a 97% rate could we call it the achievement you are wanting to believe.

Anyways, none of this has anything to do with my initial statement. Both systems suck! Everyone else is throwing these random statements such as literacy to try to change the argument. Draw it into a which is better contest. It’s just like red and blue politics in America. Fuck all that. We the people, everywhere, deserve better than either of these power and control hungry psychos would have for us. Period.

I was actually really excited to reply to you because I can explain where our miscommunication is occurring. But then I skipped ahead and saw that you have devolved into an emotional wreck incapable of controlling yourself. This is textbook form of running away and painting someone you truly don’t know the first thing about with extreme, and I do mean extreme broad brush insults as well as… name calling? I just feel sorry for you now. This will be last message to you because I simply don’t continue with people who abandoned reason in the face of challenge. Best of luck to you.

First off, I’m a progressive. Second, I lived in China for 6 months and I’m telling you the statistic is wrong. I have first hand experience among the many many many rural areas that are basically third world. China historically reports garbage numbers and this one of them. Shocking I know! How could they!

You are either ignorant or so desperate to pretend China is not a tyranny that you will actually say outloud that the state is controlled by the people. What a joke. It is so far from that I don’t even think a conversation is possible with you. We must first agree the sky is blue to have a conversation…

Of course it’s based on idealism. The correct path to progress is to think of the ideal, then compare it to the current situation, identify what is missing, then close the gap.

So many commenters on here are caught up in comparing which is better: China or the US?

That is a waste of time and mirrors the ridiculous two party propaganda that wastes away American politics.

The truth is both systems are terrible.

COVID was barely more lethal than the common flu so both countries completely overreacted. Your idea of humanity being the reason they used militarized forces to bolt people’s doors in is a joke. China historically overreacts with their concentrated power as proven time and time again. Once of which resulted in the potential LARGEST loss of human life in all of history. How many did Mao “accidentally” kill in the name of creating a humane world? 30 million? 50?

The idea of fetuses pulling as high as skyscrapers has nothing to do with propaganda or justifying criticism. These are real facts with the number of abortion being 10 million per year. No country comes close to this number. It will factually create a skyscraper every single year.

I actually lived in China and the US in my lifetime. Believe me there are plenty of positives about that society that are far better than the US. But overall comparing the two existing systems… they both suck.

Lastly, the reason an ideal capitalistic structure can exist is because of technology. The point you have failed to cover (despite using AI to generate your arguments) is that humans are failed aspect of capitalism.

There is no comparing the competitive dominance of this system for the last 100 years. With barely a fraction of the same populous of China, the US sits comfortably with no potential military threat and is now leading the AI race. It’s a fools game to pretend that progress is not worthy of consideration in the best system. But to prevent the absolute abortion of human rights, it needs an infallible system to enact the foundation which I previously described. Some obvious choices are: corporations must have regulated profits to own housing and housing must have a cap on ownership by corporations, healthcare must be universal and promote preventative measures rather than for-profit reactive measures, centralized postal service is one of the greatest examples of a non profit system that has worked for Americans for a very very long time to save them millions and create jobs.

AI could be the answer to enforcing these in a way that cannot be overturned by the interests of politicians and corporations finding common goals to destroy morality.

The only way to avoid downvotes is to stay silent.

Nothing you said contradicts anything I wrote, so I’m struggling to understand why you started your comment this way. To say “everything wrong with my post” then address nothing I wrote… I’m not sure you should be quoting literacy at all.

You’ll find I’m highly critical of both China and the US once we discuss further.

Lastly, there is no chance in hell China’s literacy reached 97%, not will it as long as rural lifestyle continues with no need for it.

I’ll bite.

China is not communist. But we should talk about different economic systems because that’s the ultimate goal.

Communism in itself is a true ideal as long as output exceeds intake and satisfaction is high. It’s also possible on a global scale, if not designed for it.

Capitalism is also a true ideal as long as it’s built on an immovable foundation of human rights paid for by centralized non profit corporations.

The issue has nothing to do with the ideas themselves. The issue is and always has been the concentration of power.

It is the ideas of the few which can never properly represent the masses. Even with the best intentions. The only true ideal for power is that there is none except when handled by all. The US Constitution seemed to have this idea in mind with its intent, though it’s evolved into the same old concentration of power over time. Doesn’t matter which party either. The reality is power is so concentrated now that there are no true parties anymore. This is a mafia that transcends both sides.

So no China is no proof of anything except improper concentration of power. Mostly capitalist by the way. And totally tyrannical in their wielding of power against free thought, sex, religion, etc. It’s practically anti freedom and contradicts every protected class we have in the US.

Does anyone have the statistics on how many abortion occur there? Even if you’re pro choice, the piles of discarded fetuses could reach skyscraper height. This is not a normal issue to have. How many illiterate? How many old people died while they were bolted inside their homes during COVID?

If the question is what system would you be willing to put your life in the hands of, there is only one answer: which one has the most distributed power and wealth above the rest.