UBI is far more pluralist than democracy, because democracy is corrupt promises with Zionist/CIA and other power supremacist agendas that only has money for those goals. UBI is the freedom to do anything, including cooperating with others on group enterprises where payoff is future success based.
Where government’s role is an administrator taking care of pluralist prosperity/needs of its people, instead of a king/power hierarchy that steals prosperity for its “in group”, only UBI can provide the function because people can afford to take care of themselves, and prosperity programs fund more UBI. Every single program/war proposal must be compared to an increased cash dividend to people.
Only pure evil that needs hierarchical slavery for their political power, including the left, opposes UBI, and so UBI cannot come from existing political systems, because they are all pure evil power maximizing.
Unironically what natives of the Great Lakes region have been saying about the “civilized” western way of life for centuries.
You have stumbled onto one of the most fundamental criticisms of modern capitalism, freedom & plenty for the few. It’s better than a hereditary feudal system in that upward class mobility isn’t categorically forbidden, but the reality for the vast majority of people is that actually moving up is not possible because the game is still rigged to produce almost exactly the same results as the old system.
I would say more to the point if everything in life needs to make a profit then freedom isn’t free
its by design, politicians billionaire class intentionally instigated this way so people dont start pondering about politics, rising up against the aristocrats.
Go to the library and read a book on Zen or something. You can’t be free until you renounce material desire.
You realize money is required for more than material goods, right? Experiences take money. Museums, live events, transportation, lodging (even if just a tent), all need money. In some places, accessing parks and beaches require money. None of these things are desires for material goods, but desires for experiences - experiences that make life more fulfilling. Experiences that can enrich the spirit, or provide opportunities for bonding with others.
I can get behind anti-consumerism, but to be unable to partake in enjoying nature or exploring our culture, just because we’re poor, is to deny us access to a crucial part of our humanity.
Or, go to the library and read some Marx. You can’t avoid material circumstances in your life, they shape it.
Whether you even have the opportunity to go to the library and sit there reading is, in itself, a material circumstance that is subject to change.
Is food material desire?
Apparently so- according to this guy. You’re lucky to not be charged for all that air too, your welcome dirty socialist xD /heavily joking /heavy sarcasm
Fr there are human rights and consumerism. It’s ehh how people can be like “having less in life is real freedom” just to cope for being poor and not be able to meet the minimal satisfaction of life.
Actually, just go to the library. Depending on where you live, you’ll not just find all kinds of books, there may also be audio book, board games, console games, game consoles and computers you can just use.
There might comfortable furniture and coffee, you can go there just for the mood or the peace.
Got kids? There might be a whole section just for kids. It may include toys or even a play-area.
There might a whole wall of post from people who wants your attention on something. There’s probably a few about free activities you could join.
Are we going to have yet another round of “everyone should be free to do whatever they want except set up groups with mutual interests”? People want some magical force in the universe, beyond human conventions, that prevents any person or group from gaining power over another.
Eh, yes and no.
People often don’t really appreciate how much freedom they have until it’s taken away.
But even with no money at all, I have a bike, and I can ride it as far as I care to in any direction I want (well, at least until I hit a border). And that is so much more freedom than I’ve had at other points in my life.
Sounds a bit extreme. What about all the things you can do for free? Also, the world needs cheap things to keep everyone spending. I’m pretty sure there will always be at least something even the poor can afford.
Yeah. Marx called it formal vs. real freedom. All the people are free to sleep under the bridges or at a five star penthouse. But some are forced to sleep under the bridge and only a few have means to exercise the freedom to enter the penthouse.
Marx misses the point of equality and conflates it with equity. In the ideal u have the freedom to work hard get well educated and make a shitonne of money then have the freedom that grants. Or u can choose to be lazy and not do any of that. It’s your choice.
We live in a society with a lot of equality almost anyone smart enough can work hard enough to get themselves out of almost any situation.
It is entirely within your choice to live under a bridge. And if unit truly isn’t then it was ur genetics that denied you the possibility to do better at which point we have to start talking about Charles Darwin.
OP shared a thought. I pointed this is a formal concept and pointed the name, so they can search for more. The concept describes a real and observable phenomena.
Why are you bringing moral judgement of people here? Even if poor people are guilt of their own poverty (they aren’t) like you are implying, it doesn’t change they are formally, but not really free. Marx description stills holds up.
Your point assumes that everyone putting the same amount of effort gets to the same place. That there’s no golden youth and no kids have to work since the early age to support their parents. That everyone is given equal opportunities regardless of health, connections, and other factors. That industries are not exploitative to either workers or retail clients. Until that is true, there’s neither equity nor equality.
Besides, Marx does not object working hard and earning big. He objects robbing others of monetary value they produced to fill up your bank. At that point, you create opportunities for yourself at the expense of someone else, which is antithetical to equality. Or, to frame it in your wording, someone else makes an effort, and you get the money. Or, more commonly, vice versa.
We live in a society with a lot of equality almost anyone smart enough can work hard enough to get themselves out of almost any situation.
That really depends on where you live, your health and possibly several points about your parents. Millions and millions of people never get a chance to grab, never get an opportunity to pursue.
It is entirely within your choice to live under a bridge.
Lots of people don’t have any better options than to live under a bridge, despite being in an area where that is illegal and not a real option.
I live in the first world nation of Australia where I get free healthcare and practically free education.
U can make changes and make opportunities. Almost everyone has access to the internet or at least a library. If ur born someone that isn’t Australia then perhaps try unfucking whatever place you live my ancestors threatened a king to get rights under the magna carta then build the greatest empire this planet has ever seen. Nothing is stopping the bridge dwellers from doing the same except the motivation to do so.
Austrália
A nation built on stolen land where the better predictor of your class is is you are descendants from the settlers or from tha natives.
Nothing is stopping…
Except the inequal distribution of aducational and work opportunities, that assure the intergenerational inequality reproduction.
a concerned note:
Your comment about some people having fought for rights and others not is borderline racist. With precious comments about Darwin, it’s a red flag.
All people fight. Some fights are smashed with unimaginable violence. We are watching a live genocide in Gaza to prove this point. Oceania colonization is built upon a genocide. I’m not assuming you have conscience of how disturbing these comments are for a person like me, in South America, where all attempts to built a decent society where meet with USA interventions. Try to think in more broad terms, not only based on your experience, but trying to encompass the multiple experiences in the world.
We live in a society with a lot of equality almost anyone smart enough can work hard enough to get themselves out of almost any situation
[Citation Needed]
The problem with statements like this is tautological. If somebody can’t get themselves out of a situation, one can just breezily dismiss it by saying that they didn’t work hard enough.
It’s why I think that we need to send Elon Musk to colonize Mars. By himself. He’s a self-made job creator, so he can start up a successful business first, create those jobs, and then send for workers later, right? He wouldn’t even need heavy, expensive life support equipment!
If you think that this is ridiculous, then you have to concede that there are actually some structural obstacles that can’t be overcome by any amount of gumption. (And is it really just a lack of effort that explains why nobody born in Soweto in 1971 is a near-trillionaire?)
[Citation Needed]
My experience and all the people I’ve spoken to throughout my life. Not 1 single person in a shut scenario didn’t have options to negate or escape said scenario.
The problem with statements like this is tautological. If somebody can’t get themselves out of a situation, one can just breezily dismiss it by saying that they didn’t work hard enough.
Or they weren’t smart enough. Or they where not fit (in the Darwinian sense) enough to get out of it.
It’s why I think that we need to send Elon Musk to colonize Mars. By himself. He’s a self-made job creator, so he can start up a successful business first, create those jobs, and then send for workers later, right? He wouldn’t even need heavy, expensive life support equipment!
That’s an excellent strawman. He went from a middle class situation (similar to thousands of people of people myself included) to the worlds richest man. He was not handed everything he has on a platter. He admittedly started with more than most but he still did infinitely better than anyone else born to similar level of advantage.
If you think that this is ridiculous, then you have to concede that there are actually some structural obstacles that can’t be overcome by any amount of gumption.
Their absolutely are structural obstacles just that these obstacles are infinitely less than previous. I mean by your logic we claim claim that the dictatorial control of Iran by the iatola is a structural obstacle and justify trumps actions in Iran hell we can justify the dropping of the nuclear bomb on Japan or go a step further and justify Hitlers actions as he confiscating property from an entire class of people and redistributed to those with less this still counts as removing structural obstacles regardless of the morality of such actions. Blind adherence to your argument takes us to a very dark place very quickly.
And is it really just a lack of effort that explains why nobody born in Soweto in 1971 is a near-trillionaire?
I want u to go to south Africa on Google street view and scroll back through time just looking at the streets and what u see. Then I want u to think about why the changes ur witnessing have happened and what changed into the period of time for which these changes happened (demographic changes might be a good indicator).
My experience and all the people I’ve spoken to throughout my life.
That only shows that SOME of the people who somehow relates to you, have options.
Have you ever wondered why they don’t take those options? You might have missed something that prevents them.
Or maybe better: Have you wondered about the people further away from you? I can guarantee you, millions of people literally don’t have any good options. If you haven’t met any, that only means you have met any.
I’ve met many people of many different nations of many different levels of wealth and success. Every single one of them in a shit scenario got their by choices they made.
Why don’t I take those options? Cos I can read the statistics on everyone before me, I paid attention in school, I realised that drugs, debt, gambling, criminal behaviour etc don’t improve my life. I chose an education path and career that make it impossible for me to end up a brokie loser
Lots of people don’t have access to any of the information sources you had, or the ability to take any of the options you did.
You had plenty of good options, and you chose from those. Some people only have bad options. They pick bad options, because that’s all they have.
It is tricky, yes.
If you happen to be able to participate in events that are free however, you have more options.
Welcome to the resistance, comrade
Slavery evolved and took on new names, but never disappeared.
How much do you have saved up, that you’re willing to tap into so that you can live for yourself and others, and not a paycheck? How long could you just exist before the debt becomes crushing? That’s the length of your leash.
Retired people who live comfortably are basically ‘off leash’ but still confined to the yard. Some people have a 1-2 week ‘leash’. Some may have saved up enough to have a 6-12 month 'leash The rest are the ‘i could stop working whenever I want, but refuse to’ or ‘man I’m so fucking far in debt that I’ll never be able to stop fucking working’
Most people will never be able to stop working because I’m a slave based economy, a slave must earn it’s food every day, and it’s bed every night.
Voluntary debt slavery.
The idea that you have to earn a living means you dont deserve to live.
I get what you’re saying, but I think it’d be better phrased as ‘the system’ (rich people) don’t want you to live.
The system is designed so that you must prove your worth every day, and provide more profit than you take in wages, every day. It was designed to exploit you for everything you have to offer.
If you continue to adhere to the same system, your best case scenario is to be ‘allowed’ a peaceful death after a lifetime of doing everything ‘right’.
I often hear that phrase from parents. Its not entirely rich people reinforcing the system. Until everyone has stopped being capitalism-pilled, we’re cooked.
