Take a car with an internal combustion engine and replace everything that is needed for an electric car. Now you have a no-nonsense car.
Instead, we have a rolling data center that feels like a smartphone.
you’re starting too far down the line
most vehicles nowadays are gimmicks
the real question is why can’t we get a simple economical vehicle and not unrepairable subcription-based spyware on wheels with dangerous features, regardless of engine type
You’re starting too far down the line.
Most products and services nowadays are gimmicks.
The real question is why can’t we get a simple good product and not inequitable take-it-or-leave it bullshit with delusional prices, regardless of where.
I mean when it comes to price it’s because the US banned chinese car companies. If BYD was allowed to sell here it would destroy these overpriced domestic manufacturers. They’re still annoyingly “smart” but they’re atleast not expensive as all hell.
My FIL has a 2021 Smart ForFour EV that’s as barebones as it gets. No screen, buttons and knobs for the climate control, popout rear windows AND an actual key you have to put into an actual hole.
It also looks like manufacturers are catching on and making EVs for normal people. Renault. Kia and Hyundai all have nice selections plus some of the Chinese models from Leap and BYD.
So it’s definitely getting better on the EV front.
These definitely exist. They are typically referred to as ‘compliance cars’ - i.e. the manufacturer is obligated, usually by regulations, to produce an EV, but they don’t want to spend money designing a new platform for it - so they take an existing model, rip out the engine, cram a motor and batteries wherever they will fit and call it good. Examples: Volkswagen eGolf, Fiat 500e, Mercedes B Class EV. Ford Focus Electric…
However, doing this means you are constrained to the shape of the combustion vehicle it is based on. So the aerodynamics may not be optimal to get the best range, you may have a transmission tunnel taking up space in the interior that is no longer necessary, directly swapping the position of the engine and the motor/inverter means you lose the opportunity to repurpose the front of the car for additional storage - ultimately it ends up compromised in one way or another.
If on the other hand you design the platform from the ground up to handle an electric drivetrain then all of these points can be taken into account.
(And regarding cars in general becoming rolling computers: this is not an EV specific issue, unfortunately.)
So three issues.
An ICE drivetrain is a certain size and shape- you have a big lump of engine under the hood, a fat cigar of a transmission under the center of the car, a gas tank in the back, etc.
An EV drivetrain has a VERY DIFFERENT size and shape- the entire battery and drive system is essentially a skateboard on top of which you can build the rest of the car.So you can’t just take an ICE car and swap out the ICE for batteries and motor. The whole car needs a redesign. And if you’re making the car for modern, tech-savvy buyers, why would you make a boring old low-tech car?
Second- EVERY car is turning into a rolling datacenter like a smartphone. Try to buy a base model car with no screen and manual windows or whatever- it doesn’t exist anymore in many brands. Automakers go for the high profit items, and that’s NOT the base models.
Third- a lot of the tech is now mandatory. Backup cameras, and soon driver attention monitoring among other things.
Sad thing is- I think there’s a demand for it, if the price is right. If getting rid of most of the tech dropped $10-20k off the sticker price I think whoever tried it would sell millions. I’m not sure you’re allowed to anymore though.
Seems like Slate can get by with everything removed but airbags. And the price is right.
And the price is right.
Starting at $25k, it’s really not a great price :/. Seems like it’ll be hard to compete with options like the Ford Fathom. EVs aren’t as expensive as they used to be.
I love the Slate, and I hope to own one someday, but I’d probably shop for one that’s a few years old.
I was super interested in the Slate until I realized it can’t tow shit. I don’t need anything crazy. An old S10 tows plenty for me. But not being able to tow a thing and being a truck is just a no go for me.
If the Fathom is 20k but has all the spyware we’ve come to expect from major manufacturers, I’d still buy the Slate. It annoys me that Bezos is involved, but I’d swallow that for some privacy in a new vehicle.
Yeah that’s understandable. I pay more for auto insurance because I don’t give them my data, so I get that. Hopefully this niche market will be big enough for Slate to survive.
Driving a kia e-niro. There’s nothing gimmicky about it except for the melody that plays when you start the car. Everything else is pretty much down to earth regular car stuff. And with a price below 40k, in 2021, I think it wasn’t even that expensive for a EV.
EV have hit 25k now. I think to hit 15k they’ll be throwing out these gimmicks with gusto. Gimmicks are to show off the price
Dacia Spring ?
Dacia is usually pretty much bare bones
In ICE cars the base models/brands are no nonsense and you get more of gimmicks as you move up the pricelist. EVs start much higher on the pricelist so they have to include some gimmicks by default to not feel a total ripoff.
In Europe Volkswagen has 3 brands that sell cars built on same platform but they are positioned in three market segments. This made sense for ICE because pricing and features progression worked while parts were shared. Now their EV lineup cost basically the same across all brands because the baseline is so high.
There are those cars, of course. But they are less common in your country.
The first company that is able to commodify modular drop-in BEV replacements for ICE vehicles would make a fortune:
Battery packs shaped to slot into engine bays, transmission tunnels and fuel tank cavities.
Individual motors directly into your preferred wheel wells (FWD? RWD? AWD? 4WD? whatever you like).
Drop-in ECU to interface with the existing chassis.
The sort of thing that someone mechanically minded could knock out in their own garage over a weekend or two, or you could get done at a professional shop in a day.
Imagine taking your favourite silhouette, and giving it exactly the range and performance you desire - at the fraction of the cost of a new EV.
There are plenty of places you can do a conversion of older cars to electric. Universal drop in conversions are close to impossible, though, since every manufacturer has its own proprietary footprint that they change every few years.
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So you acknowledge it doesnt offer value equivalent to what you paid?
In the home electronics store I nearly asked if they had any TVs that weren’t smart, nearly.
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The gimmick on wheels
I test drove quite many models when Musk did the hitler salute thing to get rid of it, and my conclusion was that the rest were even more gimmicky. Hyundais were close, but unfortunately I need the boot space their models didn’t provide.
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lacks physical controls
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blinding LED headlights
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spyware
yeah, that’s totally what we’re looking for
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I think that that’s kind of a problem with almost all new cars, not just EVs.
Slate’s a pretty stripped-down EV. It’s got a mount where you can stick a phone or tablet if you want, but nothing built-in.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_(vehicle)
No cell radio. Doesn’t even have power windows in the base configuration; it comes with air conditioning and air bags and that’s about it.
Note that the range is shorter than, say, a Tesla Model 3 or something.
Slate is sponsored by daddy Bezos.
The range is shorter than a Tesla but the price is about a third so it’s not so bad when you factor that in. I wish Slate success I really like their approach to the automobile, they remind me of Framework computer on wheels.
Yeah I hope they succeed: we really need something like that.
I understand why they’re building a truck but I really wish they hadn’t. With that low range and the suv/fastback kits being extra cost, it’s not as compelling to me as it should be
I know a part of me wonders if a two seat with flat bed pickup was significantly cheaper than a four seat car with trunk.
I know what you mean but it’s hard to believe.
However it’s easier to believe
- A huge part of the us want a truck, even if they’d be better served by other vehicle types
- When the goal is being modular, you can turn a truck into an suv, but not vice versa
Yeah I want an EV version the Bronco boom of the 70s. We got the Blazer and Scout too.
Or the Matra Rancho if you’re from France.
Hopefully a hot hatch revival can follow once the public gets a taste for simple cheaper EVs.
Probably the auto market has to fully collapse first though. And China is going to pick up tie pieces.
Estimated range: 205 miles.
So real world 150, 100 in winter.
It would do better without the aero of a barn.
It’s got a mount where you can stick a phone or tablet if you want, but nothing built-in.
I believe that is a mistake, carplay and android auto are designed to work well when driving, my phone automatically removes all text message notifications and makes me not even notice getting texted to prevent me from getting distracted.
I would like a stripped down car that still has Carplay/Android Auto.
okay, so you can put your device into driving mode
seems like a non-issue
You can install head units into older cars easily to do this. Did it with my old Ute. Android auto for a song.
This would be solved by putting space in the dash for people to install their own head units.
Which they’re doing.
Didn’t look like it every time I checked
There’s a huge space in the dash, it’s basically a large glove box. A radio or screen can be hidden behind the door or built into it, whatever you prefer.
Choice and DIY is a big part of Slate’s thing. I don’t need or want a screen and would not like a car with a big space for one. I’ll add it later if I change my mind.
The images and wording are really vague and I couldn’t tell if it was for a head unit or just a bluetooth speaker like the electric microcars do.
Am I the only person who uses my phone as the head unit?
The guy I’m replying to already explained why that is suboptimal for him.
iOS has driving mode to stop distractions whether it’s on car play or not. But you have to turn it on.
Interesting. Android auto always makes me more distracted vs if the phone was just normal.
I’m pretty sure you can choose to install an entertainment center if you wish to. But why should those of us who do not want have to pay?
Give me AC, A heat pump, 300 miles of range. And two basic speakers. If it doesn’t make the 1998 beater i got when i was 19 look fully loaded it aint basic enough. I need to not die from the elements and for it to go from A to B while blasting low quality buttrock.
Well, that’s the Slate with a couple addons
Im sold the moment my current ev kicks the bucket I’m getting a slate.
Throw a second battery in the bed and you got the range.
It’s got a mount where you can stick a phone or tablet if you want, but nothing built-in.
I’m not sure how that will be road legal in the USA because after the passage of a law in 2018 all vehicles under 10,000 lbs require a backup camera.
“Today’s final rule requires all vehicles under 10,000 pounds, including buses and trucks, manufactured on or after May 1, 2018, to come equipped with rear visibility technology that expands the field of view to enable the driver of a motor vehicle to detect areas behind the vehicle to reduce death and injury resulting from backover incidents. The field of view must include a 10-foot by 20-foot zone directly behind the vehicle. The system must also meet other requirements including image size, linger time, response time, durability, and deactivation.”
Gotcha, thank you for that. So they DO have a screen, but its normally in use for the speed/charge gauge cluster, etc. Good solution.
they can put the backup camera display integrated into the rear view mirror, many models of cars had this before the built in tablet computer became ubiquitous.
This is stupid design. When I’m going backward it’s always better to have more view angles: rear mirror, side mirrors, backing camera, all of them have different view angle and their use. Blocking mirror with camera display is like losing an eye.
We’ll, I have a rear video in mirror and you’re completely wrong.
See I like this but man is it expensive. It fits every category I need, well except range.
Let’s see what Slate actually sells, if they sell anything at all.
Yeah I might get a used slate someday.
Neat. And it looks like it’s only 50% more expensive compared to a comparable gas car, which is a huge improvement from the last time I looked.
OP is drinking the oil industry Kool Aid. All cars come with the same sensors and send the same data home. It has nothing to do with the engine.
We should have laws against it, but it certainly isn’t limitteed to EVs.
All new ones, yeah. Old cars are probably less spyware-y, but unfortunately none of those are EV (as far as I’m aware).
All cars come with the same sensors and send the same data home. It has nothing to do with the engine.
You wish to elaborate on that bold claim a little? Because there’s a ton of sensors that are present in combustion engine but not in EVs and they have everything to do with the engine.
You must be invulnerable to arrows, with your ability to miss the point.
If only I had asked for clarification to better understand the point.
He was obviously referring to telemetry bullshit that spies on you when he said “sensors;” not, like, the O2 sensor an ICE car uses to calculate fuel injection volume.
You completely missed the point. OP made a claim “EV cars have lots of gimmicks”, this comment is saying “so do non EV cars”.
this comment is saying “so do non EV cars”
It’s not though. Perhaps that is what they mean which is why I asked for clarification but it sure is not what they said.
The discussion isn’t about oxygen sensors or knock sensors. They’re talking about all the ‘smart’ features that send all kinds of information about you to the manufacturers. These systems are present in almost all modern cars.
GPS location data, speed, acceleration, braking, video, driver weight, passenger weight, radio preference, podcasts, music,…
All the location, video and entertainment data harvested on EVs is harvested on ICE.
Rivian gas vehicles have zero sensors. Checkmate athiests!
Why are there no normal
electriccars instead of gimicks on wheels? is probably the first question.your statement goes well outside just cars too. all house appliances to start.
I haven’t bought appliances in a while. I get the feeling the high end stuff has mandatory tech crap on it, but the low end stuff is still mercifully free of it; I feel like it would be easier to by a fridge that does not spy on you than a car.
I have bought appliances in the last three years. It’s pretty easy to get “dumb” appliances, but it’s hard to find dumb, high quality appliances, and you pay a premium for them. I heard Speed Queen is the best when it comes to washers and dryers. I have a dumb LG fridge that doesn’t try to connect to the interweb or anything. My washer-dryer is LG and has an option to connect to the internet I will never allow.
Speed Queen is the shit. I pulled mine out from under the collapsed roof of an abandoned laundromat in a ghost town in the early 2000s and they’re still running fine. Genuinely have no idea how old they are, definitely older than me. 100% electromechanical, schematics printed on access panels, no proprietary components. One of the things that really proves to me just how intentional planned obsolescence is, someone put a lot of effort into building and simplifying the best machine they could to wash clothes before someone else figured out that wasn’t the best way to make money
Yeah, recently some fridges stopped working after a forced update (a sentence that shouln’t exist), so definitely don’t connect anything.
