Insiders, including at centrist think tank Third Way, are cautioning Democratic candidates against echoing Republican talking points on trans rights.
Weird that they have to be explicitly told not to sound like their political rivals. Itās almost like any random person off the street would be better suited to leadership!
āThe MAGA folks took from the 2024 election that this was a great issue for them, that it was one that united their base and made Democrats uncomfortable,ā Erickson said. āAnd that was all true at that moment, but now theyāre going way beyond any concerns the public had.ā
Like, I want to just take the win, but a) it was only ātrue at that momentā because Democratic moderates like Third Way got uncomfortable and made the whole party fumble our response to this, b) Third Way getting on the right side of this issue doesnāt stop the harm Amy Acton and Mary Peltola and other anti-trans Dems are out there doing on the campaign trail now, if they really care about the long term health of the Democratic party they need to be doing more to pressure those campaigns to do better
And that was all true at that moment
Even in 2024, it was a dogshit strategy that turned off indie voters. The Republicans won because Democrats had nothing else to run on. So they settled on āNuh-uh!ā and āTrump will definitely go to jail after the electionā.
In American politics you gotta take the rough with the smooth, putting it mildly. Donāt lose the anger though, thatās for damned sure.
I think you have a very high opinion of random people on the street unfortunately
Well, of course. Iām one of them, be afraid!
eh, thatās really more of a boulevard
I have often wondered if that would work. I suspect cabinet members would gain more power until some insane person gets selected to be president and nukes everyone
That would be the āfactionsā the founding fathers were talking about. Someone from some house/cabal butts heads with someone from another house/cabal, and all out war breaks out.
A version of Democrat and Republican will always exist. Theyād hoped that an election would allow the public to select logical faction couplings.
Maybe Third Wayās next bright idea will be, āThe Left has some good ideas, actuallyā.
Iād put my money on their next bright idea being, ālosing is good, actually.ā
Wouldnāt be the first time theyāve made a token pivot.
Graham Platner has entered the chat
A random person off the street who wasnāt broken by being used as an imperial pawn in an overseas conflict. After everything has settled, I feel really bad for Graham. It seems like it was probably a BarIdeaā¢ that got momentum faster than anyone expected, and he wasnāt truthful about his past because the spotlight got so bright so quickly and so many people immediately hitched their wagons to his train. I think itās unfortunately the case that his blunder through the national stage will cause other people with similar ideas from following his example because of the evisceration he received. Even if he had been squeaky clean, how awful must it be to have both sides of the political establishment digging as deep as possible I to your past life instead of listening to what you say you want to do in the future. I still think Graham was the best pick for the seat, and that he would have trounced Collins regardless of his trespasses, itās not like he would be a devil amongst angels in DC. His response to the allegations was too middle of the road IMO, either put up zero resistance and apologize, or stand by your guns and actually defend yourself.
Idk, rant over, vote for Troy Jackson I guess.
Theyāve been doing the same to Mamdani, El-Sayed and every democrat tied to DSA, btw.
No matter what the Republicans do, establishment Democrats will always punch to their left.
Trans rights, black rights, migrant rights, all are human rights - which goes hand-in-glove with genuine democracy and economic equality. Democrats who are opposed to such things, are just Republicans wearing a sheep skin.
Democrats who are opposed to such things, are just Republicans wearing a sheep skin.
Iāve long said that the USA has no left wing political infrastructure.
There is a right wing party and a rightwingnut party.
Iāve been saying this for years
Just fucking ignore the culture war! Damn.
Hereās the thing: They canāt
If the Dems drop the culture war shit theyāll have to actually think and act for the benefit of the people, that canāt be right, that doesnāt make money Same reason why the Right is constantly parading culture war bullshit too, right wing policy is absolute shit from a butt but that doesnāt matter because they have people hooked on the cultureslop
yeah. After everyone has food, shelter, healthcare, education, and safety, we can buckle down and solve this worrisome āwhich washroomā issue.
What fucking ātrans issuesā?
The world is burning. Children are dying. No one can afford anything.
The genocide campaign Iād reckon, if I were a reckoninā man.
A lot of us keep saying this: every time the word ātransā is mentioned in political debate, you just go āwhat the actual hell are you talking about when none of us can afford food or medical care?ā
Trans rights, while morally correct, are a losing issue politically right now but the solution isnāt to hammer on them, itās to completely ignore the narrative and redirect it to something real, that people actually care about (itās the economy, stupid!)
Trans rights, while morally correct, are a losing issue politically right now
And if your takeaway from that is to ignore trans issues rather than work to educate the people around you so that trans issues arenāt a losing issue, then you are no better than the greater evil youāre supposedly lesser than.
Fuck bigots, and doubly fuck anyone whoāll give them cover because itās politically convenient.
Maybe say, āTrans individuals deserve rights. Period. Now letās talk about why the price of gas is so fucking high!ā
This is what Iād love to see more. Treat the questioner as if they just said something really fucking weird (they did), affirm that trans people, just like all of us, do deserve rights, and then redirect to something actually relevant.
I think thatās a good suggestion.
āWhat if a pre-op mtf transgender person was in a female change room and cis-females felt unsafeā
Its such a strangely constructed hypothetical fixated on a really bizarre premise.
The conversation quickly devolves into some kind of āid rather encounter a bear while hikingā kind of thing where only women can have a valid opinion.
As a male, in an anonymous medium, I feel comfortable opining that aggravated sexual assault in changerooms isnāt a credible risk, and the incidence of that type of assault is not increased by allowing pre-op mtf transgender people to use the change room.
Very āI donāt see raceā of you.
Trans issues are real and people do actually care about them. The whole point of the article is that hating on trans people is not a winning strategy, not that trans rights is a losing issue.
I get recommending redirecting the conversation, but trans people are losing their rights, and that is a real problem.
No you half wits, people canāt afford basic nesesitys, can you guess who that also affects TRANS PEOPLE. This is what I donāt understand about this convo, it affects them as well. Iāll be honest though, if your trans in America, move. Itās not a safe place it it could only be 2-6 years from now that your in more danger again.
Billionaires are desperate for any kind of distraction from progressive fiscal policy.
Republicans need a wedge issue and neoliberals do too so they can agree with Republicans on the shit people care about but still appear better.
Hate fuels conservatives. Theyāre trying to steer them using the worst possible policies
The propaganda that too many people still fall for, so, yes, maga should stop using it and focus on human first policies to reduce costs and increase wages and benefits. Dems support liberty and justice for all and donāt put trans rights above other issues as the brainwashing says. No politician is perfect on these issues, but some support helpful policies for us more than others. If they ever get enough time and large enough majority to pass big things it would be nice, but canāt blame them for the swings that easily destroy progress that took time to build. Maybe the dnc powers try to limit their majority so they canāt to do what we want? I hope not, but candidates not bought by big money and promote healthy ways should serve us better, if enough ever win at once to do much, hmm.
Democrats are also conservatives, theyāre just more polite about it because they figured its more profitable. They are not the Left.
The US are truly f*d because their bipartisan charade is obviously past due. If Bernie Sanders canāt fix your country nobody in current race can.
What could go wrong setting a big tent on fire, especially when it serves as the only triage center for a nation teetering on the precipice of a complete fascist takeover.
I do find it interesting that this specific narrative has persisted, that the Democratic Party is in any way a bulwark against fascism when it is largely responsible for facilitating the current fascist wave in the US, does not advocate for systemic change to contest fascism, and is a significant threat to anti-fascist politics exactly because it has appropriated the image of those politics.
I understand that you are required to vote for the Dems if you do not want to vote for the much more overt fascists (and I know lemmites get rather upset at the notion that it isnāt virtuous to vote for them), but it is a mistake to suggest that their interests donāt align more with fascism than they do with any anti-fascism, or anti-capitalism for that matter. Theyāve never championed pro-trans politics or advocated for social justice, we were never allowed in the tent to even try setting it on fire, they just held our issues hostage to compete with the other fascists.
I find it interesting that people still demand any triage center against fascism be a perfect one. Any system that is inclusive will by the nature of humanity attract and include imperfect people, and that includes corrupt and ill meaning people who try to take it over and use it for themselves. Itās the job of the populace to rid their groups of those people, to cleanse their groups of corrupt individuals and take back control. I believe several of our founders addressed this issue and explained it was an inevitability that was the very reason they built the system they did instead of a permanent structure that couldnāt be changed, amended, and didnāt build one that had rulers that couldnāt be removed.
I find it interesting that people still demand any triage center against fascism be a perfect one.
I would like a triage that actually worked, rather than one that advertised itself as such but then collaborated with the fascists
I think it is important to not satisfy yourself with what you have for fear of it getting worse. I also think itās telling that you consider the Democratic Party merely imperfect, like your saucy uncle at the BBQ, and not evil, like a genocidal institution of white supremacy and global capitalist imperialism. Convenient that it is also up to the moral purity of the masses to prevent that violence as well, since that frees us of any interrogation into the inevitability of these systemic forces.
Guess the socioeconomic classes of those āfounders,ā and whether the current state of affairs in any way contradicts their beliefs in slavery as a necessary evil to maintain the composition of liberalismās righteousness, or their willfullness to remove tyrranical rulers when they themselves began dismissing legal institutions within fifty years of establishing them (no, not to make them better, but to commit genocide against indigenous nations despite court rulings).
I wish this was just imperfect, but the Democratic Party is an existential threat not only to the vulnerable groups they purportedly advocate for, but all life on this planet.The gravity of that is unfortunately too heavy to satisfy ourselves with, ānot everyone is perfect.ā I canāt help but wonder if youāre among the people who have been targetted by their violence their entire lives, and whether you even defer to those people when forming your stance on this institution.
Shit like this is how republicans win the midterms and more of my friends die.
I will be proudly voting democratic and voting in the primaries too.
Your friends died from criticisms of liberalism, huh, rough stuff. Welcome to the āAmerica killed my friends,ā club, we get dickhead libs who canāt do anything without feeling righteous a lot now.
As I said in my original comment, some people have to vote Dems, since part of their evil is holding vulnerable groups hostage. If you canāt do that without it also being the morally pure thing to do, I donāt think youāre qualified to be proud of that decision. We are all forced to be accessories to this system, but youāre choosing to like it.
No theyāre getting killed by ice and losing rights because people thought voting Trump was better then Harris because of the shit people like you say.
That so? If thereās that many people that critical of this system, youād think theyād have more of an effect than selectively influencing a single voterbase. How strange.
If I was killed by the state, Iād hardly want my friends to respond by using my death to defend the state.
I mean, your saucy uncle is also a tool for geanocide, imperialism, and white supremacy. So am I. So are you it you live inā¦most of the west. If you are American, like me, you have to live in this country.
Not all of us are willing to opt out and move to a commune. Last I looked there were only like, 2 such communes in the US. So it eould really be starting a commune.
āBe mildly critical of the system I have limited power over? I might as well fucking drop my entire life.ā
think I found a starting point for you. Why is that what you arrived at?
Why would you assume I am not mildly critical of the system I live in? Iām on LEMMY not exactly a hotbed of pro capitalism or even liberalism.
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If the Trans community doesnāt want Democrats to self-immolate, they should immediately stop being a political liability by agreeing with Dems on everything and stop demanding civil rights.
is this sarcastic? Iāve had people tell ne I deserve to be in a concentration camp because of mild criticisms of Kamala months after the election was done and dusted
This person is being sarcastic, but is correctly identifying that this is the official stance of the Democratic Party and liberals on this thread.
Endorsing tents on fire is kinda the establishment way right now, whether theyāre filled with their own constituents or babies in Gaza. Republicans are hemorrhaging support because they are being exposed as standing for nothing right now, and if the Democratic party wasnāt led by people who also stand for nothing the shift would be monumental. Instead weāre losing them to Nazis or theyāre able to jump straight over the establishment freaks to get to the left.
To be clear, I donāt mean liberals as the establishment. Chuck and Jeffries arenāt even able to stand for liberal values. Trans rights fit squarely in this category and theyāre fucking cowards.
Transphobia is a liberal value, even the concept of ābiological gender,ā is reliant on liberal conceptions of the natural world and statically-defined social categories. You canāt talk about āliberalsā without it being the āestablishment,ā because we live under a liberal hegemony where those values are not only pervasive, but dominant throughout our culture and society.
Iām not saying this to like, catch you, but to point out the dangers in accepting the conflation between liberalism and āliberalā-- as in freedom, or social progress ā as that association is itself a consequence of liberal appropriation of social justice rhetoric and values. Liberals claimed ownership over anti-racism, ant-sexism, and pro-queerness, and the result of that assimilation into a liberal system was the erosion of every victory gained by activists in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. These people are not and have never been our friends.
āButā¦but my reach across the aisle and appeal to centrists/conservatives always works!!! What else am I supposed to do? Look at why people voted for further left third party options to try and win their votes since those people are willing to go out and vote? Are you stupid??? Why would I ever do that???ā
One of the ways the liberal dems seem to always seem to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, is to overestimate the effect of cultural issues on the decision of an average American voter.
America would elect a 6ā4ā 350 lbs bald trans female if they were treated to a yearly luxury overseas vacation, cheap gas prices, a steady supply of Amazon appliances and the ability to regularly eat huge portions at restaurants several times a week. Bonus points if the trans candidate champions Jesus worship and prosperity gospel.
The average American only cares about the price of things relative to their income. The ability to consume and acquire goods and property is a top priority for average voter, regardless of the ethics involved with first-world consumerism.
Americans always elect President Dollar. And thus, a typical Dem candidate hires horrible campaign managers that believe punching down on vulnerable groups will attract centrist and conservative voters, instead of platforming with proposals that meaningfully improve the material conditions of workers. You just end up with a net loss of voters. And queer rights remain stuck.
Iām disappointed that people still need evidence to see that it is more important to the neoliberal, imperialist party to maintain cisheteropatriarchy and white supremacy than it is to promote genuinely challenging politics. They only ever talked about vulnerable groups to capitalize on them and hold their issues hostage with the confidence that you have no other option.
Anti-transness is fundamental to this system, because heteronormativity is required for it to function; theyād rather lose an election than adopt politics that genuinely challenges their position.
Cisheteropatriarchy?
Come on use words people understand.
This guyās just scrolling through my comments now, lol. Did you miss the button, or forget o sign into the alt before posting this one?
Real people donāt talk like this.
I get it, Satanās maggoty cum fart would say that, funny.
Wake up, be alert to the truth available here and now if you choose! Look up questions like this to learn more! āHow did the Powell Memo, the Gingrich/Luntz linguistic strategies and modern algorithms systematically construct a framework to restrict majoritarian democracy, as exposed in Democracy in Chains? Why havenāt Dems done the same strategy based on misleading and lies, and how can society transcend these systems to build healthy, human-centric public policies that foster liberty and justice for all?ā
Culture war is due to the oppression against people, human rights, by high-control groups, indoctrinated prejudice and punching down. Dems stepped up to support human rights, as compassionate people do. There is a clear division between healthy systems that defend human rights, and unhealthy ones that punch down and other ways those at the top of the hierarchy benefit from and protect. To vote against the rights of supposed loved ones is wrong. Some claim socially liberal but donāt support it in action, just hollow words.
This was purposely twisted to make Dems the instigators of a āculture warā, when it was support for rights to life, liberty and justice for all, supposed founding values. The propaganda that Dems donāt care about workers and men is more lies. Itās actually courageous to support your queer loved ones, rather than joke along with the slurs against them. Something about integrity and what you do when no one is looking. Supporting human rights is basic decency and does not take away from majority. Itās not zero sum as the controlling types want to believe and preach.
If you see the homeless people in the streets, the unaffordable gas prices, and the moms who canāt feed their children, and youāre still thinking about transgender people, youāre either transgender or mentally ill.
Or you have transgender friends or family, or youāre just fucking capable of empathy with marginalized and persecuted people.
Iām asking you very sincerely to please read my comment again. I think the way you and some others may have interpreted it might be literally the exact opposite of what was meant by it.
Then you should have worded it in a way that actually supports trans people.
If I said, āIf you see the homeless people in the streets, the unaffordable gas prices, and the moms who canāt feed their children, and youāre still blaming immigrants, youāre either a racist or an idiotā you wouldnāt assume I was contrasting racists and idiots, you would know I was putting them in the same boat.
Thereās a lot of better ways you could have written your comment if thatās not what you intended.
And even if I grant you the most leeway possible, youāre still throwing the trans people under the bus by saying nobody else should be thinking about them, even if itās in a supportive way.
I didnāt downvote your original comment at first because I hate to do that, but now that Iām seeing how deep you want to dig this grave for yourself, Iām going to do so because youāre a waste of Internet space.
"Hmmm why are so many people saying I said something bad when I didnāt intend toā¦surely, itās their fault. š¤ "
A lib through and through
Wow, youāre really outdoing yourself.
Wrong about two things in the same comment. Impressive!
Is it hard to think of multiple things at the same time for some people? Is empathy a zero-sum game? Do we have a central pool of fucks stored up that we need to save and ration out or something?
Yes, it is demonstrably hard to think of multiple things at the same time for some people.
So, what youāre saying is, so long as capitalism exists, trans people should just shut the fuck up and get genocided.
Yeah, totally, a person who thinks like this gives a shit about unsheltered people and impoverished mothers. Who are you trying to fool?
Edit: putting this other response here because you dipshits donāt realize you can be transphobic while talking for trans people with āgood intentions.ā
Because trans people are the people who are impoverished. To act like these are seperate things and that one is more worthy than the other is trans erasure. Just because you know transphobia is bad, doesnāt mean you arenāt transphobic. The reason we arenāt able to forget about trans people is because they do experience poverty and shelter insecurity at disproportionate rates; there is no discussion on one without the other unless you intend to erase trans people, go figure.
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What do you think causes shelter insecurity and impoverished mothers, exactly?
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Mhmmmm, so, what would have to go in order to stop shelter insecurity and the impoverishment of mothers, as the original commenter insisted would be necessary before we deal with trans genocide?
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As the original commenter, Iām very confused how anyone came to a conclusion that my comments were anything but supportive of transgender people being left alone to live their lives in peace, and instead advocating for people getting upset about poverty.
If you see the homeless people in the streets, the unaffordable gas prices, and the moms who canāt feed their children, and youāre still thinking about transgender people, youāre either transgender or mentally ill.
there you go.
I was literally saying the opposite of the way you interpreted this.
I was pointing out that people who have literally no memory of ever interacting with a transgender person probably shouldnāt be focusing on whether transgender people are a danger to them, and should instead be focusing on the fact that people arenāt able to afford the basic things they need to live.
You mean you meant to say the opposite of this. What you literally said is that transgender issues have less gravity than those other (interlinked, interdependent) issues. Itās a narrative that also conveniently discards the reality that any queerphobia is pathologized to avoid more nuanced discussions on the material conditions of capitalism.
Liberals often say the wrong thing trying to dunk on a perceived opponent, and they just use language that inadvertently promotes the values they supposedly disagree with. What exactly did you think would be read out of, āif you are thinking about transgender people instead of unsheltered people, youāre mentally ill?ā
I mean I said what I said, and a majority of people who read it understood it.
Iām sorry that you werenāt among them.
I was referring to the right-wingers obsessed with transgender people in sports.
And now that you know that, feel free to delete your shitty little uninformed comments that youāve littered all over this page attacking me for expressing support for transgender people.
You didnāt express support for transgender people. You said that anyone whoās not trans shouldnāt be thinking about them.
Okay, first off, no, I said something incredibly specific that was absolutely NOT what you accused me of saying. Iām going to quote it here:
If you see the homeless people in the streets, the unaffordable gas prices, and the moms who canāt feed their children, and youāre still thinking about transgender people, youāre either transgender or mentally ill.
In no way is this saying that people shouldnāt be thinking about transgender people. Itās just factually not saying that.
What it is saying is that if you see those other things and your brain still canāt help but focus on transgender people, then youāre either transgender yourself, or youāre mentally ill.
As someone who cares about others, when I see people starving, parents who canāt afford to feed their children, and people who canāt afford to pay for gas, Iām sorry, but transgender people are NOT at the center of my thoughts, and Iām sorry, but I donāt think itās justified for anyone to expect transgender people to be at the center of my thoughts when I see those things. The thing at the center of my thoughts is to make sure that everyone has their basic needs met.
But there are people who see all of that, and they STILL want to act like transgender women in sports is a big important issue that they need to be focusing all of their attention on.
Do you disagree that that perspective is mental illness?
And Iām going to ask you a serious question:
Iām assuming youāre transgender.
Do you assume that cisgender people who care about transgender people are focusing primarily on transgender people when theyāre living their own lives and are unable to feed themselves, unable to pay for gas, unable to pay for healthcare, unable to meet their basic needs?
Because Iām going to tell you that no, theyāre not.
You absolutely ARE a concern. We want you to be able to live. We want you to be okay.
But you are not the only ones in danger right now. There are A LOT of people in danger right now. We arenāt just focused on the small micro groups within the people who are in danger. We are thinking of THE WHOLE of the people who are in danger.
But you know who IS thinking of you? The people who keep making motions to create laws to hurt you, and the people who theyāre brainwashing into supporting them.
And by the way, I am absolutely NOT a liberal.
You are wasting both of our time by trying to start a conflict with me. I am literally one of the people who would be the most likely to support you. Iām not transgender, but I absolutely AM autistic, and that group has A LOT more transgender people in it than the general population. And since Iām autistic, I am also one of the people who is in danger from the people in power right now.
Please stop attacking me and stop wasting both of our time. We both have much more pressing issues right now than attacking each other.
You drastically misrepresented who I am and then you doubled down on it, which is ironic, given the way that others have treated you. I am not someone who would treat you like that. I am sorry youāre suffering. I very sincerely hope for better for you in the future. But please have an understanding that you can be incorrect about who youāre interacting with. This interaction is the kind of interaction that the people who hate you will use to parody you and to make you look bad, and I very truthfully believe that you deserve better in your life than that.
Youāve made a lot of incorrect assumptions in that long screed.
Guess what?
Iām not trans.
Iām not mentally ill.
I think itās worth thinking about the erasure and maltreatment of trans people.
Iām not going to let you do it without pointing it out.
Fascists start with the most vulnerable members of society, and they tell the rest of society that they canāt have relief from their own problems like shortages of food and housing until they leave behind those people.
Youāre falling into that trap, and itās especially sad since you too are part of a group that theyāll say should be left behind. They already consider autistic people as damaged as trans people, itās the dark current underlying the antivax narrative.
Itās not only possible to care about trans people, people with disabilities, abortion rights, mail-in voting, homeless people, immigrants, healthcare inequity, poverty, food insecurity, and worker abuse at the same time, itās easy because they all come down to the same essential thing.
Taking away from one of us takes from all of us. To forget that is to forswear your own humanity.
Youāre not supporting trans people. Full stop. I explained why, youāre choosing to again not support trans people.
And now that you know that, feel free to edit your original comment to address the harm in it.
You did not even read what I said. You did not even read what I said. You did not even read what I said. You did not even read what I said. You did not even read what I said. You did not even read what I said.
FULL STOP.
I literally never advocated for the crap I was accused of.
Not ever. Not once. Never would.
Iām not going to edit my post, because it didnāt say what you thought it did.
youāre either transgender or mentally ill
Flawless victory
I think some of them want to lose.
The people paying them bribes certainly do.
Unfortunately for the Democrats, the strategists they trust keep telling them to move right
What brain dead politicians in the dem are actually doing this?? I feel like this is an obvious thing to avoid talking about.
James Talarico in Texas for one.
